Mega Man #48 - Spoilers & Discussion

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Re: Mega Man #48 - Spoilers & Discussion

Postby DoNotDelete » Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:37 am

Ian Flynn wrote:1) Dr. Wily's primary focus was getting control of Gamma. His castle and its defenses were slowing Mega Man down so he could just get the control cap completed. I thought that was stated in-book. Then again, I never saw the final art, and I know there were some pretty glaring art errors during production, so maybe that's where some of the confusion comes from?

The art was okay in places but generally speaking it was less-than-inspiring and detracted from the story rather than added to it. I'm sorry to say it but I have to admit to thinking about cancelling my subscription/standing order throughout this arc based on the art production values alone.

Ian Flynn wrote:2) Dr. Light never intended for it to be a jaw. Gamma had a very tiny head and a very large piece of chest armor protecting the Energy Elements. Only once Dr. Wily slapped down the control cap did Gamma look like he had a Guts Man-styled jaw.

I don't really have any complaints about this.

Ian Flynn wrote:3) The Energy Elements weren't meant to be exposed as they were in the art. It was supposed to be that the Search Snakes slithered and squirmed their way into an otherwise inaccessible place. They were also supposed to be shown actively tearing the Energy Elements out and coiling around them to explode.

I think it was also taken for granted that the reader/viewer would know what these things were that were being targeted by the Search Snakes. I had to take a guess at what they were because the last time the energy elements were visibly referenced/spoken about in the comic was back in the previous 'Legends of the Blue Bomber' arc over half a year ago (I went back and checked). A flashback here or some kind of minor dialogue/explanation about the significance of these things the Search Snakes discovered would have been incredibly beneficial to both existing followers and new readers to the comic.

Ian Flynn wrote:I don't know why we didn't have Jamal, Ryan, or Powree on the finale to something we've been building towards for two years, but that's not my call.

You probably know better than I the internal workings of Archie, but I personally wondered if the 'better' (or at least 'proven') artists' efforts have been focussed on generating the pages for 'Worlds Unite' - meaning that someone unproven like Odagawa was needed to work on this arc.
__________


Okay then, take a deep breath, because this next critique is gonna be a rough ride:

Mega Man 3 Adaption Analysis:

I think overall, 'Legends of the Blue Bomber' and 'The Ultimate Betrayal' was simply too long for what it gave to the reader - what was accomplished in 8 issues/2 volumes really could've been achieved in far less space.

Was giving each Robot Master his own ten pages really the only way to go about dealing with Mega Man 3? It became very pedantic/predictable very quickly. It went something like this:

1) Introduce Robot Master as he lies in wait for Mega Man.
2) Mega Man traverses through the Robot Master's stage.
- this honestly felt like redundant page filling most of the time.
3) Mega Man confronts Robot Master - saying they don't have to fight.
4) Robot Master - bound by Wily's subterfuge - fights anyway.
5) Robot Master loses the fight.
6) Mega Man cries/mourns a little bit.
- but he knows he's probably gonna have to shoot up the next guy anyway.
7) Rinse and repeat.

Shadow Man's all too brief backstory being the only exception, this is pretty unintelligible and unsatisfying storytelling. Something more challenging/creative could have been done with 80 pages of comic art.

Successful Parts:

Shadow Man's brief back story. This was a good early part of the 'Legends of the Blue Bomber' arc and left me wanting more. Shadow Man could have been made a returning problem for Mega Man throughout this arc instead of killing him off early on. This would have allowed us to dive into Shadow Man's dilemma/feelings - here and there - throughout the 80 pages - also acting as something to pull together the entire arc into something more satisfying. This arc should have focussed on at least one character's development and that needn't have been Mega Man - there are other characters to explore/develop here. Mega Man didn't really develop a whole bunch anyway - he just kept shooting up Robot Masters irregardless of how tearful/sorrowful he got - this came off as pretty hypocritical.

Snake Man's bit was pretty cool artwork-wise - Snake Man's stage had some pretty exciting hazards that could have been played up a little more/made more story out of.

Needle Man's hobby could have been expanded upon/elaborated into something truly hilarious instead of just the cheap laugh it was used for.

So I guess I'm saying - instead of giving all the Robot Masters an equal ten pages in the spotlight - the more interesting ones should've been given more pages to grow, to test Mega Man and to catch our sympathies. The 'Legend of the Blue Bomber' arc fell pretty flat for me because of too much focus on following the formula laid out by the game.

Unsuccessful Parts/Complaints:

'The Ultimate Betrayal' was overly stretched out for what it gave - we needed Mega Man and Break Man to face off at some point - sure, there are some issues to resolve there - but to make it the centre point of a four-issue arc? I don't know if that was really necessary - two issues for this face-off and the Gamma battle? Okay, that would've been better.

The fight scene with Gamma was pretty samey and stretched out - and confusing. To reiterate/repeat that which I've said previously - by now I'd forgotten what the Energy Elements looked like so when the Search Snakes found them and yanked them out the significance was completely lost on me. I was all: "What just happened?" "Those things were important how?" "What did I miss?"

Instead of relying on the reader's memory of story elements/issues from around half a year ago a minor flashback/brief explanation again of the significance of the Energy Elements would have idiot-proofed/streamlined this showdown with Gamma.

Mega Man 3 Adaption Overview/Final Verdict:

These past two arcs have disappointed me - both 'Legends of the Blue Bomber' and 'The Ultimate Betrayal' story-wise - though mostly from a structural standpoint - and the 'The Ultimate Betrayal' has also disappointed me artwork-wise. This series is simply not hitting the near-perfect notes that Archie's Sonic the Hedgehog main title and Sonic Universe title consistently hit. I honestly want more from Archie Mega Man to convince me to continue investing in it.
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Re: Mega Man #48 - Spoilers & Discussion

Postby Antiyonder » Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:08 am

DoNotDelete wrote:I think overall, 'Legends of the Blue Bomber' and 'The Ultimate Betrayal' was simply too long for what it gave to the reader - what was accomplished in 8 issues/2 volumes really could've been achieved in far less space.

Was giving each Robot Master his own ten pages really the only way to go about dealing with Mega Man 3? It became very pedantic/predictable very quickly.


Good point and for what it's worth criticism like this might help influence Ian further. After all, a part of the problem with the MM and MM2 arcs (Volume 1 and 3 respectively) is that the Robot Master fights went too easily and quick (and even if one of them is Quick Man, that isn't necessarily a good move).

Heck, fight against both Shadow Men in Worlds Collide seemed like something that should have lasted longer, but was arguably the easiest win for both heroes.

Though I would argue that between the 8 RM, Break Man, Doc Robot and Gamma that 8 issues was necessary, it's just that some of the time could have been spent better on some events (Doc Robot), while shortening time for the other events.
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Re: Mega Man #48 - Spoilers & Discussion

Postby Ian Flynn » Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:17 pm

DoNotDelete wrote:
Ian Flynn wrote:I don't know why we didn't have Jamal, Ryan, or Powree on the finale to something we've been building towards for two years, but that's not my call.

You probably know better than I the internal workings of Archie, but I personally wondered if the 'better' (or at least 'proven') artists' efforts have been focussed on generating the pages for 'Worlds Unite' - meaning that someone unproven like Odagawa was needed to work on this arc.

Nope. None of them are contributing to "Worlds Unite," expect for maybe a small Battle Book story.
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Re: Mega Man #48 - Spoilers & Discussion

Postby SonicBlueRanger » Thu Apr 23, 2015 3:40 pm

Personally I think the Mega Man 3 arc was pretty good. Legends of the Blue Bomber had a new and interesting idea in putting the focus on the Robot Masters and giving as a real feel for them as characters.

While I could agree that Ultimate Betrayal was the weak link it still had loads of moments I enjoyed. The entire first issue is especially well written, the Proto Man fan felt like genuine closure to a long settling plotline, The Idea of DOC Robot having all the Robot Masters personalities was clever, and I'm sorry but the Copy Robot thing was a really cool idea that I'll admit got cut down unfortunately.

The only things I really can say I didn't like were Eric Esquivel's terribly unfunny Short Circuit strips ("T Rex" Jones' were a massive step up IMHO) and Ryan Odagawa's artwork in Ultimate Betrayal.
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Re: Mega Man #48 - Spoilers & Discussion

Postby Spectre the Hechidnat » Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:22 pm

MetalSkulkBane wrote:Personally I liked this issue, although I'm not fan of the art. I don't know, it's just not working for me.

Cliffhanger is pretty cool, it's good to know that....
lalalei2001 wrote:I'm guessing you mean the brown-haired lady from this picture? (I think Waltz is off-limits.) Or maybe the blonde lady?

http://kobun20.interordi.com/wp-content ... kmanH2.jpg

...Dang it Flynn! Can't you once in your life NOT base your work on someone's else? XD.

But seriously, pretty interesting idea and I'm looking forward to learn more about this organization,


I thought you were seriously ticked at Ian for a minute. I must say, I love how Ian collects material from as many branches of a franchise as he can when building one up himself-Ms. Y is like the Mega Man answer to Breezie being added to Archie Sonic. The fact that we're getting Mega Man 6 setup already is pretty cool too.

Also, loved the Princess Bride reference in one of the other posts.
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Re: Mega Man #48 - Spoilers & Discussion

Postby LBD_Nytetrayn » Sat Apr 25, 2015 5:22 am

Yeah, I love how Ian actually uses what's there to the fullest before adding his own contributions.

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Re: Mega Man #48 - Spoilers & Discussion

Postby Damo » Sat Apr 25, 2015 10:28 am

lalalei2001 wrote:I'm guessing you mean the brown-haired lady from this picture? (I think Waltz is off-limits.) Or maybe the blonde lady?

http://kobun20.interordi.com/wp-content ... kmanH2.jpg


All the characters in the picture were created for use in the official Capcom Fan Club newsletter, so they're all Capcom's property (even if Ishikawa liked Waltz enough to draw her elsewhere). It's interesting that Mrs. Y showed up first, and in this context. I wonder if that means we'll see the Chief of Police (the Mario-looking guy, who had a blink-and-you'll-miss-it cameo in Ariga's manga) or Memo/Note (as Ishikawa later named the Chief's blonde assistant)?
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Re: Mega Man #48 - Spoilers & Discussion

Postby Mavrickindigo » Sat Apr 25, 2015 12:34 pm

If they ever use W. Waltz, I don't know if I'd like that design, as it seems rather different for Mega Man

there's a fan design of her, compiled from his "other" work that is pretty neat, including a devil-like electrical cord tail that I've seen floating around. I don't believe there's a fully official version of that design, though, considering the nature of said other work, but the fan art of what it WOULD look like looks pretty neat.
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Re: Mega Man #48 - Spoilers & Discussion

Postby MetalSkulkBane » Sat Apr 25, 2015 12:44 pm

Spectre the Hechidnat wrote:
MetalSkulkBane wrote:Cliffhanger is pretty cool, it's good to know that....
lalalei2001 wrote:I'm guessing you mean the brown-haired lady from this picture? (I think Waltz is off-limits.) Or maybe the blond lady?

http://kobun20.interordi.com/wp-content ... kmanH2.jpg

...Dang it Flynn! Can't you once in your life NOT base your work on someone's else? XD.

But seriously, pretty interesting idea and I'm looking forward to learn more about this organization,


I thought you were seriously ticked at Ian for a minute. I must say, I love how Ian collects material from as many branches of a franchise as he can when building one up himself-Ms. Y is like the Mega Man answer to Breezie being added to Archie Sonic. The fact that we're getting Mega Man 6 setup already is pretty cool too.


Weeeeell, I was semi-serious. Ms Y is pretty much like Finitevus, technically Flynn didn't created her, but in practice he's her 'real father', so it would be a lie to say that Flynn didn't created anything new.
On the other hand they both relay heavily on existing material (Finitevus would be nothing without Penders stuff, Mr Y works for Mr X). Similar thing with characters like Shard, Eclipse or whole Moebius.

And while Flynn created his more original characters (Emerald Spear, Meropis), I would love to see him created a completely character on the scale of Enerjack, Monkey Khan or Ancient Walkers, not just B villains and supporting cast.
And don't tell me that there is not space for new characters, Sonic just got rebooted and Megaman has only 5 Flynn characters (counting only important ones)


...BTW, am I the only one grateful that Gamma wasn't defeated down by Top Spin? I'm not really fan of Megaman taking down enemies with their weaknesses. That's great game mechanic, kinda ruins suspense in a comic.
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Re: Mega Man #48 - Spoilers & Discussion

Postby lalalei2001 » Sat Apr 25, 2015 1:01 pm

I think it would've worked because Top Spin is legendary for sucking/not sucking, depending on who you talk to.
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Re: Mega Man #48 - Spoilers & Discussion

Postby LBD_Nytetrayn » Sat Apr 25, 2015 2:22 pm

lalalei2001 wrote:I think it would've worked because Top Spin is legendary for sucking/not sucking, depending on who you talk to.


Agreed. I think the Search Snakes were used exquisitely, but I'd have loved to have seen the Top Spin deliver the final blow to the cockpit itself.

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Re: Mega Man #48 - Spoilers & Discussion

Postby Axel T Rat » Thu Apr 30, 2015 4:59 pm

+Well this feels VERY reminiscent of my own first battle with Gamma during the first playthrough when I was little. All that's missing is me exhausting my Search Snakes and having to get one last ditch effort with the Top Spin.
+The ending's pretty dang close right down to the "whistle concert" and Wily's fate being unknown. Also I got the boss and ending theme playing in my head throughout this.
+Nice to see Gamma stretch its legs a bit more. Also cool to see it fight while sitting down at first like the original boss.
+Wily's dialogue including his ego driven justifications

=Hrm~ So the Mr. X persona has some origins and there's a "Miss Y". Just hrm. Interested, but not excited. Wily's going to have to ditch them for the big event most likely.
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Re: Mega Man #48 - Spoilers & Discussion

Postby Gauntlet101010 » Fri May 01, 2015 8:45 am

I liked the MM3 storyline. But I've been liking the comic a lot so far.

I agree that the structure could use some tweaking. The MM1 and 2 stories and the Sonic crossover battles went way too fast. You have 8 Robot Masters - you need time to develop them, so I don't disagree with the amount of space used. The Robot Masters have never really gotten a whole lot of personality outside this comic. A lot of times they've just been there, so I appreciate that they have the space to have actual character moments - enough for each robot. But I don't think we necessarily need to have each level represented as it was in the games - with the Robot Master waiting at the end. Not for all of them anyhow.

It's a tough balancing act.

I'm thrilled that Ms. Y is becoming a legitimate character and can't wait to see W. Waltz in the series. I know the MM franchise very well, so the series is really predictable. Adding twists like this is very rewarding. I wonder if there's room in the comic for Oceanman and Honeywoman?
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Re: Mega Man #48 - Spoilers & Discussion

Postby Uwaaii » Fri May 01, 2015 5:14 pm

Gauntlet101010 wrote:I liked the MM3 storyline. But I've been liking the comic a lot so far.

I agree that the structure could use some tweaking. The MM1 and 2 stories and the Sonic crossover battles went way too fast. You have 8 Robot Masters - you need time to develop them, so I don't disagree with the amount of space used. The Robot Masters have never really gotten a whole lot of personality outside this comic. A lot of times they've just been there, so I appreciate that they have the space to have actual character moments - enough for each robot. But I don't think we necessarily need to have each level represented as it was in the games - with the Robot Master waiting at the end. Not for all of them anyhow.

It's a tough balancing act.

I'm thrilled that Ms. Y is becoming a legitimate character and can't wait to see W. Waltz in the series. I know the MM franchise very well, so the series is really predictable. Adding twists like this is very rewarding. I wonder if there's room in the comic for Oceanman and Honeywoman?

Is W. Waltz confirmed?
I wonder if Archie can include other OC characters from other official mega man art/comics.

I don't think they can include Honey Woman and Ocean man as they are supposed to be Light’s robots and they can't just add them to the long list of official RM numbers. Unless they are given a special category like the MM Killers or maybe with an Archie-twist created by Dr. Lalinde.
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Re: Mega Man #48 - Spoilers & Discussion

Postby Gauntlet101010 » Fri May 01, 2015 7:37 pm

Uwaaii wrote:
Gauntlet101010 wrote:I liked the MM3 storyline. But I've been liking the comic a lot so far.

I agree that the structure could use some tweaking. The MM1 and 2 stories and the Sonic crossover battles went way too fast. You have 8 Robot Masters - you need time to develop them, so I don't disagree with the amount of space used. The Robot Masters have never really gotten a whole lot of personality outside this comic. A lot of times they've just been there, so I appreciate that they have the space to have actual character moments - enough for each robot. But I don't think we necessarily need to have each level represented as it was in the games - with the Robot Master waiting at the end. Not for all of them anyhow.

It's a tough balancing act.

I'm thrilled that Ms. Y is becoming a legitimate character and can't wait to see W. Waltz in the series. I know the MM franchise very well, so the series is really predictable. Adding twists like this is very rewarding. I wonder if there's room in the comic for Oceanman and Honeywoman?

Is W. Waltz confirmed?
I wonder if Archie can include other OC characters from other official mega man art/comics.

I don't think they can include Honey Woman and Ocean man as they are supposed to be Light’s robots and they can't just add them to the long list of official RM numbers. Unless they are given a special category like the MM Killers or maybe with an Archie-twist created by Dr. Lalinde.

No she isn't confirmed, but she is central in that image so I feel pretty safe in assuming she's coming. I'm also assuming Mr. X will look like Wily does in that picture, but it's all guesswork on my part.

I don't see why Honey Woman or Oceanman would have to stay built by Light (in the very unlikely event they're brought over). A concept is just a concept - it's not canon. Changing a concept is all fair in my book. Plus Auto isn't a DLN, so :P .

That image was made for Capcom, so it's not really something brought in from outside. I don't think anything from a truly licensed product will ever see the printed page in Archie. For instance they nixed the Wonderswan parts form "Rock of Ages" because they don't hold the rights to those characters - that's Bandai. I was actually shocked to see the Mayor from Gold Empire in there. How did they get away with that? Maybe because it was such a small part.
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