Time Travel and Predestination

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Re: Time Travel and Predestination

Postby LilacDownDeep » Wed May 14, 2014 10:22 am

The only reason the world was thrust into the future is because everybody wanted Bass and since he's so popular they had to think of an excuse to bring him into the storyline.
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Re: Time Travel and Predestination

Postby Penguin God » Wed May 14, 2014 10:36 am

Well.
They wanted to use Bass.
They wanted Proto Man as his mysterious loner ally.
They wanted all the Robot Masters.
They wanted the Genesis Unit.
They wanted the Mega Man Killers.
They wanted Duo.
They wanted to use everything Mega Man, really. Worlds Collide was the big game heroes Sonic and Mega Man, and they had to change both series to fit that for a while.

Whether the Genesis Wave thrust Wily into the canon future-self or just a pure game representation, it doesn't matter. All Genesis said was the games happened, and we already knew that. It has no effect on the comic now, and it can't really be contradicted. Rock of Ages only has one thing happen outside of the games, and that's probably going to be resolved in Quint's arc. So really there's not much to make a big deal out of in this case.
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Re: Time Travel and Predestination

Postby Sonicpolo » Wed May 14, 2014 12:39 pm

Mavrickindigo wrote:
Sonicpolo23 wrote:I think I've said this before, but with Rock of Ages I've always thought that it was comparable to the Sonic Comic's game tie in. The issues took place in a another place In another time. That being said, I would think that the future that is stated in that issue will be different from the comic's timeline.

There really seems to be no reason to believe this, especially since it fits in with the timeline presented in the comics. If it was following the game timeline, Mega Man should have encountered Ra Moon after fighting Cossack and before being at the robot tournament.

Oh, I never knew that SAR happened after Mega Man 4 in game's timeline. My mistake on that part. I just thought that the events played out on Rock of Ages will be sightly different than what will actually happen in the comics. For example, the fight with Ra Moon. Even though it's similar to what happen in issue 31-32, The issue had Wily in his amazon outfit and no other characters that were in the fight (Ra-Thor,Ra Devil,Blues, and the Robot Masters).
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Re: Time Travel and Predestination

Postby LBD_Nytetrayn » Wed May 14, 2014 1:09 pm

Mega Man 5, technically, as Beat was prominent throughout.

I think it might have technically been able to happen at any point after, but the absence of Bass and the whole Wily jail thing around 6 makes it less likely that it happened anywhere besides the interim of MM5 and MM6.

--LBD "Nytetrayn"
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Re: Time Travel and Predestination

Postby Zan » Wed May 14, 2014 2:38 pm

The zone itself can quickly rebuild Robot Masters


Yeah, just double checked.

"The beauty of this zone isn't just that it's hidden from prying eyes. It's that it bends the rules of time and space! Hours here are barely seconds in our home dimensions!"

So basically, the skull egg zone allows for more extensive preparation.
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Re: Time Travel and Predestination

Postby Mavrickindigo » Wed May 14, 2014 4:58 pm

Zan wrote:
The zone itself can quickly rebuild Robot Masters


Yeah, just double checked.

"The beauty of this zone isn't just that's hidden from prying eyes. It's that it bends the rules of time and space! Hours here are barely seconds in our home dimensions!"

So basically, the skull egg zone allows for more extensive preparation.

Wily also mentions "abusing the fuzzy logic" of the zone to rebuild all the robot masters. IN Sth 250, it seems like he was able to crank them out over and over again in quick succession.
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Re: Time Travel and Predestination

Postby Astrobot7000 » Tue Jun 10, 2014 3:31 pm

Despite Rock of Ages, I have never been a fan of the whole Quint scenario.

First of all, Quint makes no sense in terms of his very intent. Why would Wily reprogram Mega Man, arm him with a vastly inferior weapon, and send him into the past to destroy himself? If Quint fails, Mega Man is destroyed, but it would only destroy the Rock from the future which doesn't help Wily in the present (which is where he still tries to conquer the world). If Quint succeeds it would cause any number of nasty side effects. It might even create a time paradox, the results of which could cause a chain reaction that would unravel the very fabric of the space time continuum, and destroy the entire universe! Granted, that's a worst case scenario. The destruction might in fact be very localized, limited to merely our own galaxy. +10 cool points to whoever gets the reference first, sans search engines.

Secondly, it's the whole Austin Powers problem, "If you have a time machine why not just go into the past and shoot him while he's on the crapper or something?" His plan is ridiculous if he has a time machine. Why not just prevent Rock from being created, or build Bass early enough in time line to easily crush Mega Man, or even just using his knowledge of the future to easily destroy him. Abducting Rock and sending him back in the past to destroy himself is quite possibly the worst thing he could do with a time machine. It's like using the heat of a combustion engine to cook eggs rather than power an automobile. It's just plain odd and a very backwards use of the tool.

Sure, there is the 'Wily is crazy' argument, but that's shallow at best and is out of character. Wily has never been shown to be dangerously unstable to the point of universal destruction like Robotnik. Also, while his plans are often a bit silly, they are usually not outright stupid.

And finally, it is also quite a sad fate for the beloved Blue Bomber, which leaves a bad taste in my mouth. If Mega Man is to be destroyed it shouldn't be by his own hands by being stuck in a time loop. Some fans think Dr. Light repaired and reprogrammed Quint and sent him back to the future. I like this theory, but its only fanon as far as I know.

Anyway, that's my wall of text regarding why I hate Quint and time travel.
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Re: Time Travel and Predestination

Postby Mavrickindigo » Tue Jun 10, 2014 5:00 pm

the whole game was really messed up. It featured very head-scratching music, surreal backgrounds, odd level design, and mega Man torpedoing Wily out of an escape pod until Wily crashes into Earth in an atomic explosion.
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Re: Time Travel and Predestination

Postby Penguin God » Tue Jun 10, 2014 5:06 pm

It's important I think to note that Quint isn't destroyed. He doesn't blow up at all. Also Wily actually did want to go to the past, but the Time Skimmer can only go forward and then snap back. It can't affect the past at all. There's nothing in the Mega Man universe that really says changing the past paradoxically would destroy the galaxy either... that's really just an assumption from other series.
The game's story is silly, but it's not really full of loopholes if you delve really deep into the manual. The more pressing problem is that Quint is never actually resolved. You beat him up, he leaves, and... that's it.
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Re: Time Travel and Predestination

Postby Mavrickindigo » Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:32 pm

Well he is fought again in Mega Man V, but the stage implies that Wily is mass producing the Mega Man killers, so at that point who knows?

Of course the comic is going to replace Rockman Shadow with Quint, because apparently Capcom doesn't want Archie using stuff from that game.
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Re: Time Travel and Predestination

Postby Astrobot7000 » Wed Jun 11, 2014 7:11 am

If the Time Skimmer can only go forward and then snap back to its origin, it does indeed alleviate some of the problems of "misuse." It does not alleviate the primary issue regarding Quint though. Even with this limitation it still makes little to no sense to reprogram Mega Man (with a severely inferior weapon) and send him against himself. It would make much more sense to simply steal some sort of future technology to build a better robot, or research future events in order to out maneuver Mega Man into sure destruction. Anything other than Quint!

I was actually very disheartened to see Quint show up in Rock of Ages. I hope Ian handels him much better and gives the story line a proper ending, and hopefully makes it seem more logical.

Also, the galaxy/universe being destroyed by a time paradox was a joke/reference not intended to be serious ("the way I see it, if you're gonna build a time machine into a car, why not do it with some style?"). But, if Quint were indeed to destroy Mega Man, I cannot imagine the results would be good for the space/time continuum.
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Re: Time Travel and Predestination

Postby Zan » Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:59 am

These are the revalances references from my "Bridging The Gap" topic:
http://kobun20.interordi.com/2011/03/14 ... intn-time/
http://kobun20.interordi.com/2010/09/20 ... al-lesson/

-The Time Skimmer is not of Wily's design.
-Wily planned to travel into the past, but didn't.
-The Time Skimmer can only travel into the future and back.
-Future Rock lacked battle functions.

Contrast this with the story of Rockman Megaworld:
"Tired of having his plans foiled every time by Mega Man, Dr. Wily decides to build himself a time machine. Travelling himself into the past, Dr. Wily restored his defeated robots and started causing chaos. At this rate, even the peaceful past was about to be tainted by Dr. Wily's ambitions! In order to stop Dr. Wily, Mega Man was sent into the past in a time machine hastily crafted by Dr. Light."

These time machines must postdate World 2's Time Skimmer. However, Wily might have traveled back at any time to before World 2's events. I've been told that Dr. Light observed so-called 'time ripples' causing changes in the present, prompting Rock to stop Wily. From this, we can conclude that time is malleable, and does not cause universal collapse. How this affects the Quint paradox is anyone's guess.
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Re: Time Travel and Predestination

Postby Mavrickindigo » Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:59 pm

Interesting since apparently Wily is using the time skimmer in issue 20?
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Re: Time Travel and Predestination

Postby Penguin God » Fri Jun 13, 2014 11:14 am

The time event that causes Rock of Ages is pretty obviously the Quint story, if you look at the details.
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