MM#31 Discussion/Spoilers

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Re: MM#31 Discussion/Spoilers

Postby LilacDownDeep » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:54 pm

Astrobot7000 wrote:I disagree that pointing out major structural and plot errors is nitpicking. My fourth and fifth points (although, come on Wily, for real) could be seen as nitpicking probably. I honestly think this arc has quite a few high-level issues. I know the comic is intended for children. Any kids reading the arc are not going to care. So the arc is a success from that angle. It is exciting and has a lot of robots. Kids will love it and not even notice the plotting issues or logical inconsistencies. However, I am almost 30. As explained, I have never played SAR so I have nothing to compare it against. Perhaps this is solid gold compared to SAR, but I think a work should stand on its own.


Just remember, it's hard to perfect an already extremely flawed plot.
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Re: MM#31 Discussion/Spoilers

Postby NxtWaltDisney » Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:41 pm

I have to say, that ending had me all excited & giddy. Can't wait for the finale. :mrgreen:
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Re: MM#31 Discussion/Spoilers

Postby GentlemanX » Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:22 pm

Just got the issue today.

And I... have to admit it's not very good. Let's start off with some pros, Callvaro's artwork continues to be enjoyable, he pulls off some awesome reaction shots with Gemini Man and Flash Man. Plus that two page spread, while not nearly as cool as what Bates did with WWC, is still a nice action shot. Dialogue wise, the issue's pretty spot on too, with Dr. Wily stealing the show the moment he walks on panel. All of the Robot Masters in fact have good dialogue with plenty of rich character.

Where the issue falls apart is in story and most of all in pacing. EVERYTHING before the group enters the Temple of the Moon is filler that could be cut. The only reason I say "could" is because the Gemini Man fight is actually pretty cool. I like that his clones are independent of his original body, feels like a cool dynamic. Literally everything else though feels pointless, the stuff with Dr. Light especially. I know you want readers coming into the issue without having seen parts 1 and 2 to know what the stakes our, but it severally holds the story back by regurgitating information we already know. I don't need to know that the other Robot Masters are helping people, I want to know if Rock can beat Ra Moon. As a result of over half the issue being filler I didn't need to see, the actual fight with Ra Moon and the enslaved Robot Masters is on super overdrive. Awesome as that two page spread is, I can tell the reason we get it because THAT'S THE ONLY FIGHTING WE ACTUALLY SEE. After that, we get more dialogue with Wily explaining Ra Thor and Ra Moon explaining he can control Ra Thor just before the issue ends. A much better way of handling this would have been to have all of Rock's Robot Master team epicly marching on the Temple of the Moon, maybe throwing Gemini Man in very quickly, and then having the rest of the issue being the fight with Ra Moon and his Robot Master sect. Maybe actually show Ra Thor fighting Ra Moon for a bit, then make the turn the end of the issue. As it is, the issue almost feels like half reprint and half a fight scene covered up by text. Now was the time for the action adventure comic to focus on action, and it really fell flat.

Overall, one of the weakest issues of Mega Man in a long time, probably about at the same level as Return of Dr. Wily. Hoping the ending doesn't feel like a mach speed section of Sonic 06.

LilacDownDeep wrote:Just remember, it's hard to perfect an already extremely flawed plot.

I've never played SAR, but the overall plot here looks fine. Streamlining details shouldn't be that difficult and a lot of the problems I'm having with this issue are how the comic chose to spend its time. That's not an issue of the plot being bad, it's an example of the comic not realizing which part of the story needed to focus on.
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Re: MM#31 Discussion/Spoilers

Postby Bean » Fri Nov 15, 2013 7:11 pm

When you put it like that, I see what you mean. I kind of liked it. We knew from the end of part two that the tunnel plan was flawed and that Mega and Guts were walking right into an ambush. The Mega Man 3 bots themselves really shouldn't be used all too much since we'll have a MM3 adaptation down the road, and they're trying to apparently save the MM2 ones which would be nice thanks to all the spinoff games there are.

I guess the thing is that the fight with Ra Thor and whether or not they bring in the actual final boss to the game or not is still a mystery. If it's just the former, then I could easily see them covering the issue in time. We also have the epilogue after that, so pacing hasn't been an issue to me like it was with #3, #12, and #20 were. I actually enjoyed this issue and will look forward to the finale next month.
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Re: MM#31 Discussion/Spoilers

Postby LBD_Nytetrayn » Sat Nov 16, 2013 1:43 am

Astrobot7000 wrote:2. Ra Moon rebuilt the Generation Two Robot Master. He built them the same way as the Generation Three bots. Why aren't they under his control as well? There's really no reasons why they wouldn't be.


I believe the distinction was that the Third Numbers were completely scratch-built, programming and all, while the Seconds used everything from their prior creation-- including their programming.

SonicBlueRanger wrote:Don't Gemeni Man's copies just wander around in Mega Man 3? That's what my brother said anyway.


They run and jump in a circular loop, in unison, and turn to fire at you when fired upon. Once one is destroyed, the other changes his attack pattern and runs around, firing the Gemini Laser.

--LBD "Nytetrayn"
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Re: MM#31 Discussion/Spoilers

Postby Penguin God » Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:56 pm

...yeah, this issue's not written that great. The art got a lot better, but the events fall flat. The other Robot Masters immediately catching up with Guts Man and Rock is the worst moment, but it seems like nothing matters in this one. They pretty much just walked up to Ra Moon, and all the Robot Masters they've already beaten are waiting for them anyway so why does it matter when they're beaten before?
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Re: MM#31 Discussion/Spoilers

Postby Sonicpolo » Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:14 am

When I looked at the cover I've expected more interaction with Blues and Rock. Don't get me wrong, I love how Break Man at least apologizes for shooting Roll. I just want Mega Man and Blues actually having a conversation. I hope once they make the MM3 adaption they will have more moments between the brothers.
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Re: MM#31 Discussion/Spoilers

Postby Penguin God » Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:25 am

I hsould note that I agree we didn't need to see the Robot Masters making everything okay before Ra Moon's climax. The tension is so low in this, nobody feels in danger.
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Re: MM#31 Discussion/Spoilers

Postby SonicSoul » Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:57 am

All these mixed reactions makes me wonder how good (or how rushed) the finale will be.
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Re: MM#31 Discussion/Spoilers

Postby Blaster » Fri Nov 22, 2013 8:16 am

SonicSoul wrote:All these mixed reactions makes me wonder how good (or how rushed) the finale will be.


Yeah, me too. I mean I've read the issue twice and I still don't really know how I feel about it. Though one thing is for sure, Cavallaro's art is always a delight to look at. The art for the comic has been consistently good through all its run and I really adore that.
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Re: MM#31 Discussion/Spoilers

Postby SonicSoul » Fri Nov 22, 2013 8:33 am

Potential spoiler for #32.

Spoiler: show
As long as we get to see Mega Man make his heroic "sacrifice" like in the game. Having him fire both arm cannons at Ra Moon after Wily telling him it'll do serious damage to him, but he just responds with a sincere "don't worry about me" smile. That'd be a great moment for me and for the ending. Instead of having everyone celebrate Ra Moon's demise, they focus on getting a battle-scarred, unconscious Mega Man back home leading to the cliffhanger.
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Re: MM#31 Discussion/Spoilers

Postby The Bored » Sat Nov 23, 2013 5:50 pm

Penguin God wrote:...yeah, this issue's not written that great. The art got a lot better, but the events fall flat. The other Robot Masters immediately catching up with Guts Man and Rock is the worst moment, but it seems like nothing matters in this one. They pretty much just walked up to Ra Moon, and all the Robot Masters they've already beaten are waiting for them anyway so why does it matter when they're beaten before?

I have to agree. This arc just feels a little crammed. I'm not sure if the 4 part story arcs is an editorial mandate or Ian's personal choice, but this story could have done with more issues to help with the pacing and maybe a little more planning it was strange for Blues to just show up out of nowhere with the robot masters like that.

SonicSoul wrote:Potential spoiler for #32.

Spoiler: show
As long as we get to see Mega Man make his heroic "sacrifice" like in the game. Having him fire both arm cannons at Ra Moon after Wily telling him it'll do serious damage to him, but he just responds with a sincere "don't worry about me" smile. That'd be a great moment for me and for the ending. Instead of having everyone celebrate Ra Moon's demise, they focus on getting a battle-scarred, unconscious Mega Man back home leading to the cliffhanger.
Well, if the preview for issue 32 is anything to go by that's probably how it will end.
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Re: MM#31 Discussion/Spoilers

Postby El Veinte » Fri Nov 29, 2013 3:24 am

Going to disagree with some of you, I actually prefer the world building stuff. We know Mega Man, Roll, the robot masters and the entire world will survive because we have over a dozen more game adventures ahead. There is no dramatic tension in whether or not Mega Man will win in the end--of course he will. So I'm not in a big hurry to rush to the end because the journey itself holds more interest.

I like that the book takes the time to show the other characters helping out throughout the world, showing us where they are and reminding us that they're out there making a difference too (something Capcom sometimes cared less about when important characters start to appear and disappear without explanation from one game plot to the next). I really like seeing how this adaptation's narrative is changed up from the game. The tunnel portion seems in reference to the third episode of the game where you're mostly exploring the temple interiors, then we had the fight with Gemini Man which was originally the finale of the second episode, but it still moves fairly smooth I find. They even worked in those giant moving blocks, an awesome throwback to one of the more ridiculous parts of the game.

It's probably important that Rock needed to battle some of the Third masters to see how they were being forcibly manipulated firsthand, that way he can trust them more later on once Ra Moon is gone and they can go "back to normal". I don't have a problem with Break Man's group meeting them at the temple, having figured that Ra Moon had split his forces between attacking Mega Man and staying in reserve for defense, so under Break's efficient leadership the bunch probably had an uneventful trek straight there. I also enjoyed the action scenes, particularly where we get to see robot master weapons interacting when battling one another. Ra Thor's betrayal was similarly swift as it was in the game, looking forward to seeing how closely or loosely the rest of this arc will play out in comparison.
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