MM#55 - Spoilers & Discussion

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Re: MM#55 - Spoilers & Discussion

Postby Ryannumber1gamer » Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:07 pm

EvilEddie wrote:In order to sell graphic novels though they'd actually have to release them.



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Re: MM#55 - Spoilers & Discussion

Postby Mavrickindigo » Thu Dec 10, 2015 7:13 pm

What does the editorial have to say?
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Re: MM#55 - Spoilers & Discussion

Postby Candescence » Fri Dec 11, 2015 9:05 am

I'm very happy that the ZX timeline split is not a thing, so I can consider that a victory.

But, yeah, I'd really like to know what the heck is going on with the comic, because Archie and Capcom are really leaving things up in the air right now. A cancellation is one thing, but a reboot would be utterly stupid, especially if it has anything to do with the upcoming cartoon. The comic up to this point has been some of the best comic series I've ever read, and it'd be a shame for the whole thing to get scrapped or inexplicably rebooted for no intelligent reason.
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Re: MM#55 - Spoilers & Discussion

Postby Mordum » Fri Dec 11, 2015 3:08 pm

I'm not sure I dug the specific way it was told (I'd assumed, or imagined, that it'd be vignettes from the different eras, not just artwork full of hints), but the art IS nice and it still feels about the most logical way for the story to end.

I'm content.
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Re: MM#55 - Spoilers & Discussion

Postby Ian Flynn » Fri Dec 11, 2015 3:34 pm

Ryannumber1gamer wrote:I mean no offence to Ian, but this sounds like it has the Sonic #250 problem of most of the pages being amazing pieces of artwork, but not having any substance to them. I hope that isn't the case, but it sounds like it is.

It's the exact opposite. Each page needs to be unpacked to some degree or another. Heck, I thought the symbolism was heavy-handed. Maybe I went too cerebral/artsy with this one.
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Re: MM#55 - Spoilers & Discussion

Postby Mordum » Fri Dec 11, 2015 4:36 pm

Ian Flynn wrote:
Ryannumber1gamer wrote:I mean no offence to Ian, but this sounds like it has the Sonic #250 problem of most of the pages being amazing pieces of artwork, but not having any substance to them. I hope that isn't the case, but it sounds like it is.

It's the exact opposite. Each page needs to be unpacked to some degree or another. Heck, I thought the symbolism was heavy-handed. Maybe I went too cerebral/artsy with this one.


I feel like the issue boils down to two things. Granted, this is only speaking for myself, but...

1. We're in a comic book environment where art is considered the secondary craft: art is not a storytelling method to most fans. To most comic readers, art specifically means execution of the script. I can't think of anyone in your specific niche of writing (all age property comic book tie-ins) that actually IS someone who conveys his stories less script-heavy and more art heavy except for Tom Scioli, and you're not exactly going for a Transformers/GI Joe kind of thing. Which isn't a flaw and not that something had to be that way, BUUUUT

I can understand the pin-up impression people have. This is not an art-driven medium to most people. This isn't the days of Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko's crazy, pure visual innovation anymore (and not for nothing, but the one big, art-driven cerebral toy comic referenced above IS heavily Jack Kirby)...and I can assume that mostly pure picture stories implies a lack of scripting or lack of actual writing being put into the art's preparation. Obviously that's not true, but frankly, nothing in the series up to this point has really conditioned the reader to bask and unpack a purely visually driven narrative. So I can imagine people being jarred by the method of telling the story just because all the precedence for time jumping has been far more literal.

2. On the other hand, while I appreciate the attempts at being more cerebral and artistic in an attempted execution...I agree with you. It IS heavy handed. Which, actually, for the demographic the comic is intended for? I think the issue is pretty great. It's wide in scope, vague in execution, and for the young audience would be a pretty thrilling trip through a big wide world that rounds out to believing in optimism. But for me personally, as someone who tends to prefer cerebral storytelling in most other things, I couldn't help but feel slightly let down. If it was perhaps a little more vague and symbolic, I'd've dug the approach more. But the whole of it is honestly really easy to decipher, so if you're talking about reception from the older audience...well, you didn't go cerebral ENOUGH from where I'm standing to maybe justify such a break in format.

Mega Man is an intelligently written, warm, and fun comic. The Ra Moon stuff in particular was some of my favorite recent comics reading. But between Rock of Ages's insane literal approach in seeing the future and the X stuff thematically tying itself to the present by an actual adventure taking place in the future, there is something that feels out of place about this finale. I'd honestly assumed the finale was going to be different vignettes from the appropriate areas, five or six or whatever panels per page where you'd see future characters trying to accomplish their goals with blips of personality running through because...that's what the structure of the series, up to this point, had conditioned me to expect.

I also think there's a bit of difficulty in even taking your own personal feelings into account. You simultaneously think the issue is fairly heavy-handed and obvious in what it's saying, but we're still meant to sit and unpack it? It didn't READ "artsy" to me, at least in the context you're using it in.

Though, I think Capcom had the right idea on this one...even if most of why Dr. Light's framing device fits is their fault in the first place. Mega Man went from a simple adaptation of the material to an adaptation of the material specifically framed as the beginnings of a great, giant legacy. It's impossible to see most of the story's events, whether in the past or in the future, without seeing them as events where the end game IS an active plot point long before it really happens. So I think this would've actually felt bizarre without Dr. Light...his framing device continues that idea and was the main reason I felt satisfied by the story. Without Dr. Light, I don't think it would've been as satisfying.

I think it's a noble experiment. But it's not necessarily cerebral enough to be an engaging switch from how the comic's told it's stories up to this point because it's TOO obvious in what it's saying even without Light's dialogue...so of course, an audience used to a series largely driven by script is going to wonder what's going on with such (admitted) heavy handed visual symbolism...not in the sense of "what does this story mean" as much as "It's told this way...why?" I'm not exactly expecting or demanding A Serious House on Serious Earth or anything, but visual symbolism also designed to be as obvious as possible is significantly less satisfying than the character vignettes the series has previously employed.

That being said? I stand by still being content. I've argued in other threads that Red and Blue Shift are the most logical places to actually end Megaman's story. The final scenes with Light and his children showing confidence in the future, likewise, feel like the proper place to leave. By the end of the issue, I felt like I'd read a series with a clear beginning, middle, and end where every character had reached a thematically appropriate, satisfying conclusion. And I'd still argue that. I'm just not so sure this kind of execution went far enough to justify itself.

You've never written a bad Dr. Light scene, though, and the series ending on his warmth was a perfect moment. I'm just not so sure that trying to simultaneously be cerebral AND clear, concise all ages toypop was the most interesting possibility.
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Re: MM#55 - Spoilers & Discussion

Postby MetalSkulkBane » Fri Dec 11, 2015 5:01 pm

Ian Flynn wrote:
Ryannumber1gamer wrote:I mean no offence to Ian, but this sounds like it has the Sonic #250 problem of most of the pages being amazing pieces of artwork, but not having any substance to them. I hope that isn't the case, but it sounds like it is.

It's the exact opposite. Each page needs to be unpacked to some degree or another. Heck, I thought the symbolism was heavy-handed. Maybe I went too cerebral/artsy with this one.


I really hope it's true, but then I'm a dummy. Take Megaman & Bass poster. It's main heroes, 8 robot masters and King. I stare at this and I see nothing.
Robot Masters are in standard boss type positions. King is being bigger because he's the main villain. Heroes are kinda falling... is that a symbolism? There is a void behind them, is that a symbolism how world falls into chaos because King destroys old order and heroes don't know on what are they standing on... do I even speak with sense?

I'm 22 years old and I have personal hostility against any symbolisms. I cannot calculate how many times I saw story that I felt just bad, but people kept telling me "You don't get it. It's Symbolism." "You see, this guy had a Alzheimer." "Adventure Time is referring to east philosophy". "Old man and the sea is about society".
Call me a moron and give me a coloring book to entertain my feeble mind, but I just don't like those stories in which message between lines is more important then the one in the front. (well, most of the time. I'm pretty sure I could come up with one or two stories I liked).
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Re: MM#55 - Spoilers & Discussion

Postby Mordum » Fri Dec 11, 2015 8:17 pm

MetalSkulkBane wrote:I'm 22 years old and I have personal hostility against any symbolisms. I cannot calculate how many times I saw story that I felt just bad, but people kept telling me "You don't get it. It's Symbolism." "You see, this guy had a Alzheimer." "Adventure Time is referring to east philosophy". "Old man and the sea is about society".
Call me a moron and give me a coloring book to entertain my feeble mind, but I just don't like those stories in which message between lines is more important then the one in the front. (well, most of the time. I'm pretty sure I could come up with one or two stories I liked).


A lot of your posts make more sense now, if nothing else.
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Re: MM#55 - Spoilers & Discussion

Postby MetalSkulkBane » Sat Dec 12, 2015 10:04 am

Mordum wrote:
MetalSkulkBane wrote:I'm 22 years old and I have personal hostility against any symbolisms. I cannot calculate how many times I saw story that I felt just bad, but people kept telling me "You don't get it. It's Symbolism." "You see, this guy had a Alzheimer." "Adventure Time is referring to east philosophy". "Old man and the sea is about society".
Call me a moron and give me a coloring book to entertain my feeble mind, but I just don't like those stories in which message between lines is more important then the one in the front. (well, most of the time. I'm pretty sure I could come up with one or two stories I liked).


A lot of your posts make more sense now, if nothing else.


And can you reveal me the hidden meaning behind the several robots floating in front of white wall?
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Re: MM#55 - Spoilers & Discussion

Postby Tylinos » Wed Dec 16, 2015 12:35 am

Well, that was...certainly a clip show. Nice art, at least.

The two-Wilys page intrigued me, but I get the feeling we won't be getting an explanation there anytime soon.

That Off Panel made me smile, especially the end. Well done there, at least.

So yeah. Can't really hate on it, because as Ian said, it didn't end up as intended, and the art was very good, but it was still the weakest of the final three issues.
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Re: MM#55 - Spoilers & Discussion

Postby TurboTailz » Wed Dec 16, 2015 1:59 am

Couldn't help, but frown on this issue because well..it's on hiatus now. I didn't expect this issue to be a grand ending either, but seeing those images just gave me a glimpse on how the story would've went under Ian's run. Well here's to hoping it resurface on where it left off *cheers*.
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Re: MM#55 - Spoilers & Discussion

Postby MetalSkulkBane » Wed Dec 16, 2015 7:16 am

Tylinos wrote:The two-Wilys page intrigued me, but I get the feeling we won't be getting an explanation there anytime soon.


It's just reference of events in Megaman World II (gameboy game). Again, you can stare at it for hour and no extra meaning will come out.
(I'm being cranky again, aren't I? Sorry, I'm stopping).
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Re: MM#55 - Spoilers & Discussion

Postby Ryannumber1gamer » Wed Dec 16, 2015 12:22 pm

It really is a shame a lot of people say #55 didn't turn out that strong, because personally I think #54 with Blues' transformation into Proto-Man was the strongest story Ian's done in my opinion. I love that story and hope the comic returns just to see it continued.

Also Vesper Woman. I want to see Vesper Woman appear in the comic again
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Re: MM#55 - Spoilers & Discussion

Postby Mordum » Wed Dec 16, 2015 4:07 pm

MetalSkulkBane wrote:
Tylinos wrote:The two-Wilys page intrigued me, but I get the feeling we won't be getting an explanation there anytime soon.


It's just reference of events in Megaman World II (gameboy game). Again, you can stare at it for hour and no extra meaning will come out.
(I'm being cranky again, aren't I? Sorry, I'm stopping).


I'm torn between not thinking the finale issue went nearly artsy enough and really wanting to dig deep into your intense hatred of anything resembling abstract thought.
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Re: MM#55 - Spoilers & Discussion

Postby Mavrickindigo » Wed Dec 16, 2015 4:33 pm

Just got to reading my issue

First of all, the letter I got from Archie saying what is going to happen to my subscription clearly says this is the final issue of Mega Man, so if they are still going after the "Hiatus" story, someone forgot to tell the subscriptions department to put the finale on the down low.

Second of all, this final "arc" got progressively worse and worse for me as a reader of the comic. The firs issue seemed like a great way to end the series: We had hints of what was to come, but a sort of "Mega Man will keep fighting on and on!" letting us know that whatever threats will come, he'll be ready.

The second issue set up an arc that we'll never see, while ending the stories of some comic characters (though it does introduce a new character we will never ever get to see again)

This issue... its just a megaphone going "LOOK AT ALL THE STUFF WE WANTED TO TELL, BUT YOU WILL NEVER EVER SEE EVER!"

I mean, they even designed a young Dr. Weil for the elf war. What is even the purpose besides to go "yeah, we could have done more, but we can't"?

I must say the comic has been my favorite comic series, and I am truly sad to see it go. I doubt whatever replaces it will be as good, but hey, all things must come to an end, I guess.

The tributes at the end were nice, but I would still like to know why Archie wasn't more forward with things. Even now, the "So long... for now" is throwing mixed messages at us.
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