Mega Man #53 - Spoilers & Discussion

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Re: Mega Man #53 - Spoilers & Discussion

Postby Kureejii Lea » Sun Sep 20, 2015 3:51 pm

BlazeHeatnix wrote:Most women are not tomboys, so I can't see little girls, if they read MM, minding the series being male-dominated that much.


Saying "most women are not tomboys" seems a bit baseless, seeing how women being into things like cartoons/comics/sports/video games is not actually uncommon or rare (and a lot of girls simply don't get into those things because they're literally told they're not supposed to, not because they have no inherent desire), and even then, that's completely irrelevant to wanting your entire gender represented in a form of media you enjoy instead of sidelined or treated as a token.

There's nothing inherently wrong with a narrative being dominated by one gender or another (for instance, a story about a group of brothers and their father, or a bunch of female friends or whatever, are not inherently sexist -- their focus is what it is), but it can be disappointing or irritating or upsetting when you have several male characters (100+ in this case) taken on multiple roles, and then there's just "the girl" -- something that's actually quite common (90s cartoons, anyone?). And I can see how it would seem like a step backwards when that one girl, at a glance, seems to embody little more than a 50s housewife stereotype.

That said, having not seen this letter, I have to wonder if its author has actually seen in what ways Roll contributes (that aren't just sweeping), or if they have actually noticed the presence of, say, the other female robot characters, or the geologist/roboticist, or the federal agent.

...except for Kalinka.


...the one introduced as a damsel in distress used to manipulate a male character.
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Re: Mega Man #53 - Spoilers & Discussion

Postby BlazeHeatnix » Sun Sep 20, 2015 4:39 pm

...the one introduced as a damsel in distress used to manipulate a male character.

Said male character was her father, not a love interest, which makes a big difference. If Cossack were a female scientist, or if Kalinka were a male robot, it would make no difference. And anyway, the point is Penguin God said Roll was the only female character in the entire series before MM9, which is factually false, and I was only correcting that. I'm not trying to argue that MM isn't a male-dominated series or that we have enough female characters. Let's not get into a stupid feminism argument here.

And as for the tomboy thing, I didn't mean that in a way that implies most girls aren't into nerdy stuff (Which I've never believed had anything to do with being a tomboy) but rather in the sense that they'd understand Roll not being an action girl fighting alongside Mega Man and that not every female character should be an action girl. But yeah, it might be easier to swallow if there were more female characters doing things in general.
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Re: Mega Man #53 - Spoilers & Discussion

Postby SonicBlueRanger » Sun Sep 20, 2015 4:44 pm

Ok...Am I missing something?

Because it seriously sounds like this woman just said "Hey y'know it kinda sucks your one main female character doesn't really contribute enough" and people are going "BLAH SJWS BLAH!"

It seems like a reasonable complaint to me.

Said male character was her father, not a love interest, which makes a big difference. If Cossack were a female scientist, or if Kalinka were a male robot, it would be exactly the same. And anyway, the point is Penguin God said Roll was the only female character in the entire series before MM9, which is factually false, and I was only correcting that.



A.) No being her Father doesn't change the fact a Female Character was used to motivate a male character and B.) I think PG meant Main Female Characters.
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Re: Mega Man #53 - Spoilers & Discussion

Postby BlazeHeatnix » Sun Sep 20, 2015 4:52 pm

SonicBlueRanger wrote:and people are going "BLAH SJWS BLAH!"


But that's...not...what I said...at all?
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Re: Mega Man #53 - Spoilers & Discussion

Postby Bean » Sun Sep 20, 2015 4:53 pm

I wasn't expecting such a dumb debate (Seriously, "SJW" is a totally laughable term to begin with) from that innocent letter. Guess I should've known better.

The issue was good, and it's a shame that the end pretty much feels like a setup to something that will never be fully written unless there's a turnaround. Don't know how to generate interest in a book that won't be on shelves a few more months from now.
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Re: Mega Man #53 - Spoilers & Discussion

Postby SonicBlueRanger » Sun Sep 20, 2015 4:58 pm

BlazeHeatnix wrote:
SonicBlueRanger wrote:and people are going "BLAH SJWS BLAH!"


But that's...not...what I said...at all?


I wasn't talking specifically about you dude.
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Re: Mega Man #53 - Spoilers & Discussion

Postby The KKM » Sun Sep 20, 2015 6:03 pm

Were you talking about yourself? Because you were the only one talking about them.
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Re: Mega Man #53 - Spoilers & Discussion

Postby SonicSoul » Sun Sep 20, 2015 6:06 pm

Guess you meant me then.

Also, whenever I see someone comment on how "dumb" a debate is, they have all the right to ignore it if they're not going to say anything better than trivialize on what is a rational discussion.
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Re: Mega Man #53 - Spoilers & Discussion

Postby SonicBlueRanger » Sun Sep 20, 2015 6:18 pm

The KKM wrote:Were you talking about yourself? Because you were the only one talking about them.


Sunwalker wrote: this moher just sounds like yet another of those overzealous SJW "soccer moms".


DoNotDelete wrote:Unnecessary political correctness/social justice nonsense.


SonicSoul wrote: I don't think that should be considered "sexist" and changed for the sake of appeasing some SJWs butting in their extreme views on something they probably hardly know anything about to begin with.


Yep just me.
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Re: Mega Man #53 - Spoilers & Discussion

Postby The KKM » Sun Sep 20, 2015 6:24 pm

Sorry then, must've been because your posts were shorter, I legitimately only noticed "SJW" written in yours when reading the page. There seems to be a bit more meat there than "BLAH SJWs BLAH!", but eh, they DID mention the forbidden bunch of letters, saddening Joss Whedon.
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Re: Mega Man #53 - Spoilers & Discussion

Postby SonicSoul » Sun Sep 20, 2015 6:42 pm

I was just disagreeing with the asessment that Roll needed a bigger, more active role. And that it doesn't have to be a bad thing if she doesn't. The SJW part was perhaps hyperbole on my part.
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Re: Mega Man #53 - Spoilers & Discussion

Postby SonicBlueRanger » Sun Sep 20, 2015 6:43 pm

The KKM wrote:Sorry then, must've been because your posts were shorter, I legitimately only noticed "SJW" written in yours when reading the page. There seems to be a bit more meat there than "BLAH SJWs BLAH!", but eh, they DID mention the forbidden bunch of letters, saddening Joss Whedon.


No the issue is that calling someone an "SJW" is just a shorthand for people to ignore the actual problem because it makes them superior to those dumb idiots who actually care about other people.

Plus the term is just thrown around all the time when people say anything just a little progressive. If you so much as say you think maybe women/People of Color/LGBT People should play bigger roles in media you're labeled an SJW. Because you know God forbid media grow and evolve or anything.

It's a crap term used to undermine people because they dare want diversity.
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Re: Mega Man #53 - Spoilers & Discussion

Postby BlazeHeatnix » Sun Sep 20, 2015 6:59 pm

SonicBlueRanger wrote:
The KKM wrote:Sorry then, must've been because your posts were shorter, I legitimately only noticed "SJW" written in yours when reading the page. There seems to be a bit more meat there than "BLAH SJWs BLAH!", but eh, they DID mention the forbidden bunch of letters, saddening Joss Whedon.


No the issue is that calling someone an "SJW" is just a shorthand for people to ignore the actual problem because it makes them superior to those dumb idiots who actually care about other people.

Plus the term is just thrown around all the time when people say anything just a little progressive. If you so much as say you think maybe women/People of Color/LGBT People should play bigger roles in media you're labeled an SJW. Because you know God forbid media grow and evolve or anything.

It's a crap term used to undermine people because they dare want diversity.


No, it's typically used when people complain about a SPECIFIC piece of media not including enough women, different races or LGBT characters in them. Rather than fight for a gradual shift into generally more progressive content across ALL media (as was the case before social media came along and everyone expected instant gratification all the time), they'd rather complain about something they otherwise enjoy not being progressive enough for them.
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Re: Mega Man #53 - Spoilers & Discussion

Postby Gauntlet101010 » Sun Sep 20, 2015 10:16 pm

I dunno, I just think the complaint is kind of legit. I wouldn't want Roll's character to be reworked in it's entirety or anything, but it's always been a weird quirk of the repetitiveness and longevity of the series that we have tons of male characters and only three mainline female ones (from the games).

I think Ian & co. did as good a job as they could with that without turning it into a Megaman-flavored fanfic.
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Re: Mega Man #53 - Spoilers & Discussion

Postby Bean » Sun Sep 20, 2015 10:54 pm

It's also probably the same reason why Quake Woman was added in, to give the series a female robot master that could be used in stories like she was quite a bit in the book's second year (#13-16, #19, #22). Roll's role is pretty defined, but I wouldn't exactly object to Capcom creating "Roll Woman" or something one day if they ever try to continue on past MM10 for the classic series.
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