Mega Man #55 and Possible Reboot...?

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Re: Mega Man #55 and Possible Reboot...?

Postby Mavrickindigo » Wed Oct 28, 2015 9:15 am

I don't know. All I ever hear and see about Go is that the people who make it admitted to never watching the original show, they make episodes centered the most lazy and juvenile of humor (saying nothing but "waffles" for 11 minutes is funny, right?), and even in some episodes, they actively mock their audience (the Return of Slade).

This is the first time I've seen anyone really speak positively and actually have something to say about it.

Needless to say, I am not a fan of the "comedic re-imagining" franchises are doing.
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Re: Mega Man #55 and Possible Reboot...?

Postby Mordum » Wed Oct 28, 2015 9:24 am

I would watch a Megaman cartoon that parodies and skewers nostalgia for my entire life.

Make it a buddy cop comedy about X and Quint, where X is trying to make things align with Dr. Light's vision of progress and all Quint does is repeatedly show via his behavior how completely offbase Dr. Light's optimism was. And just constantly play it for laughs, like Quint comes from those idealistic suburban picket fence towns of yesteryear but is also basically your racist uncle.
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Re: Mega Man #55 and Possible Reboot...?

Postby DoNotDelete » Wed Oct 28, 2015 12:54 pm

Ben Ten: Omniverse's buddy-cop relationship between Ben Tennyson and Rook Blonko is my favourite thing about the show - for me it's been the best relationship of the whole Ben Ten franchise and for Ben himself it makes the most sense for him to be in that relationship - to be one half of a funny cop/straight cop duo whilst policing the uh... omniverse and keeping a check on alien ne'er do wells with his superhero watch thing.

Ben Ten: Omniverse itself is a not-too-serious semi-parody of its own back story and LOOOORE (following on from Ben Ten (mostly light-hearted kid superhero stuff) and Ben Ten: Alien Force (which was more serious and too involved in teenage angst)) - but it can still do semi-serious storylines and hold together a story that lasts longer than 10 minutes.

Mordum wrote:
DoNotDelete wrote:I dunno. I feel like I've kind of had my fill of 'superficial humour reimaginings of existing franchise characters'.

I mean, I can tolerate/enjoy Teen Titans GO! up to a point, but I don't think it's a sound approach to 'reimagining' or 'updating' everything. I guess Sonic Boom tries to use that formula too - with limited success - but it's kind of lazy/superficial/short-lived.

As much as I was kidding about Mega Man Boom, considering that Megaman is ALSO a franchise about children having their identities twisted and conformed by adults seeking to accomplish great things and fulfill their lives while also having an incredibly clingy fanbase that can't bare to let go of its childhood, the Go approach actually WOULD make perfect sense!

I know. It's something I've kind of feared happening because it's an inevitable pattern I've seen a lot of franchise shows fall into - inevitable in that when a show/franchise builds up enough critical mass of backstory (and/or LOOOORE LOOOOOOOORE LO-LO-LOOOOORE) it can do one of three things:

1) Try to honour all of the existing character profiles and related guff - and build new story material under that somewhat creatively-suffocating cloud of backstory and LOOOORE.
2) Make use of all the existing backstory and LOOOOOORE - but in a light-hearted tongue-in-cheek parody fashion that offers up a nostalgia hit for old fans whilst being silly enough to entertain people not already familiar with the franchise (Teen Titans GO! Sonic Boom, Ben Ten: Omniverse (sort of)).
3) Ignore all previous backstory and LOOOORE and create an alternate universe/timeline/future which provides the opportunity/creative freedom to build new material using familiar characters (Mega Man has done this many times already - Classic, X, Battle Network, Zero, ZX, etc. also Legend of Zelda).

We could even do a Mega Man inspired analogue of Teen Titans GO! right now:

Premise: Set after the events of Mega Man 10, Mega Man (Rock), Roll, Proto Man (Blues), Auto and Rush have returned to a life of domestic chores - maintaining Dr. Light's lab/home - with all the comedy and disagreements that come about from that kind of domestic arrangement (blocked toilets, air conditioning broken, Dr. Light having heart attacks, etc.). But Wily's still up to tricks so Rock and his buddies have to go about fighting Robot Masters and saving the world sometimes - with all the comedy and stuff that comes from facing off against Wily and his Robot Masters out in the field (Robot Masters having convenient weaknesses, strange choices for Robot Master bases (sewers, Pump Man? really?), etc.). Also 'repurposing' Robot Masters to adapt to life in society is a recipe for hilarity - Skull Man being a creepy grave digger with a morbid sense of humour, or even Robot Masters somehow assigned to the wrong kind of jobs - Fire Man being temporarily assigned as a Fire Fighter - before that all goes horribly wrong: "But he's called 'Fire Man' - how could I possibly have known that meant he started fires?"

We can even do a direct character personality analogue of the Teen Titans:

Mega Man = Robin (or the insecure highly strung one)
Roll = Starfire (the super upbeat sunny-side up one)
Proto Man = Raven (the moody broody difficult one)
Auto = Cyborg (the over excitable one who also has his own car)
Rush = Beast Boy (the stupid/dumb one who's kind of useful because he can transform into things - I guess)

Also other Mega Man franchises could show up sometimes - X being Rock's better, more handsome, more powerful, taller younger brother - sounds like an ideal scenario for feeding Rock's Robin-like insecurity, doesn't it?

That Mega Man so easily fits into this formula is no surprise - the webcomic-style humour which Teen Titans GO! models itself on is often based on the inevitable awkwardness that comes from unlikely room mates co-habiting - what is Teen Titans GO! if not just a light-hearted comical observation of the day-to-day relationships between a human, alien, demon, robot and beast-child? I even expect this is the premise that was pitched to Cartoon Network prior to Teen Titans GO! getting the green light.

I suppose I don't really have a problem with a Mega Man show that analogues Teen Titans GO! I also think that parodying all that Mega Man material (LOOOOOOOOORE) would make a lot of genuinely funny 10-minute episodes, I just... don't think it's very original in an era where there is already a lot of stuff like Teen Titans GO! that already panders to the 10-minute attention span ADHD internet meme generation. The truth is, a lot of the Teen Titan GO! stories can be cut-and-paste into any 'odd bunch/co-habitation' webcomic/comedy parody scenario - you could even cut-and-paste a lot of the Teen Titans stuff into a Mega Man parody set up.

I mean, I could write it in my sleep it's so easy - that's why it doesn't impress me.
Last edited by DoNotDelete on Wed Oct 28, 2015 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mega Man #55 and Possible Reboot...?

Postby Mordum » Wed Oct 28, 2015 1:06 pm

DoNotDelete wrote: (and/or LOOOORE LOOOOOOOORE LO-LO-LOOOOORE)


If I ever become a serial killer, I'm blaming you.

3) Ignore all previous backstory and LOOOORE and create an alternate universe/timeline/future which provides the opportunity/creative freedom to build new material using familiar characters (Mega Man has done this many times already - Classic, X, Battle Network, Zero, ZX, etc. also Legend of Zelda).


If we can't do a buddy cop comedy about X and Quint, his racist dad, then I actually think it'd be cool if a cartoon or comic actually was based on a wholly original idea for a new Megaman incarnation. I'm sure there's something they haven't done yet.

Or just do Megaman Soccer: The Animated Series.
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Re: Mega Man #55 and Possible Reboot...?

Postby DoNotDelete » Wed Oct 28, 2015 1:11 pm

Mordum wrote:
DoNotDelete wrote: (and/or LOOOORE LOOOOOOOORE LO-LO-LOOOOORE)

If I ever become a serial killer, I'm blaming you.

Just to be clear - and I expect you fully appreciate this - I'm not really mocking you, I'm more 'channeling' you (I don't like the fanboyish over-importance placed on LOOORE either).
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Re: Mega Man #55 and Possible Reboot...?

Postby Mordum » Wed Oct 28, 2015 1:24 pm

I kinda want a Megaman that follows the Star Force route and has the characters based on increasingly outdated technology. Like industrial revolution era Robot Masters. That'd be awesome. Something really out there and new.

DoNotDelete wrote:
Mordum wrote:
DoNotDelete wrote: (and/or LOOOORE LOOOOOOOORE LO-LO-LOOOOORE)

If I ever become a serial killer, I'm blaming you.

Just to be clear - and I expect you fully appreciate this - I'm not really mocking you, I'm more 'channeling' you (I don't like the fanboyish over-importance placed on LOOORE either).


I assumed you were joking either way, yes, but that being said: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5cZhEeGOnk
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Re: Mega Man #55 and Possible Reboot...?

Postby MetalSkulkBane » Wed Oct 28, 2015 2:33 pm

Mordum, I got to ask you. If you think that TTG is so great.... and fans are so spoiled.....and fanbase is sooo unreasonably obsessed with nostalgia...Then would you prefer Mega Man Go over continuation of Archie's Mega Man?
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Re: Mega Man #55 and Possible Reboot...?

Postby Mordum » Wed Oct 28, 2015 3:02 pm

The current arc is basically the perfect ending, so sure.
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Re: Mega Man #55 and Possible Reboot...?

Postby Nintenfreak » Wed Oct 28, 2015 7:23 pm

No no, i disagree, I love where Ian is going and I wanna see the rest of it.
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Re: Mega Man #55 and Possible Reboot...?

Postby LBD_Nytetrayn » Thu Oct 29, 2015 12:07 am

DoNotDelete wrote:Also, Hitoshi Ariga did a whole bunch of comedy Mega Man shorts - they're featured in the back of most of the Megamix/Gigamix books.


True, though I was thinking more in animation when I said that.

--LBD "Nytetrayn"
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Re: Mega Man #55 and Possible Reboot...?

Postby MetalSkulkBane » Thu Oct 29, 2015 9:16 am

Mordum wrote:The current arc is basically the perfect ending, so sure.


Perfect is a strong word. What about Mr. X? Don't feel like his story isn't finished?
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Re: Mega Man #55 and Possible Reboot...?

Postby Mordum » Thu Oct 29, 2015 9:27 am

Xander's entire arc is about how he's stuck in the past. His terrorism comes out of a primal fear of machine sentience devaluing humanity and his point of revelation was finally seeing that robot future with none of the perspective and context someone like him would need. He saw exactly what he WANTED to see, like any real bigot. And by calling himself Mr. X in his old age, he's essentially taken the name of the robot trying to improve the very future he's terrified of, unwittingly (or wittingly, perhaps) comparing himself to a revolutionary who believes the exact opposite of what he does. Stealing a name that doesn't belong to him in order to keep it meaning what HE wants it to mean.

Not to mention, you know, being so stuck in the past he's LITERALLY STUCK IN THE PAST via time travel is on the nose, but honestly the perfect ending to his character. COULD you tell more stories with Xander/Mr. X? Yes. Do you NEED to? Not really. He's taken the name of the future he wants to prevent and made it his own, and has appropriated his hated people's language into his supremacist beliefs. But because we HAVE seen the future, he's destined to fail. We know he'll fail. Taking X's name, forcing himself to change the past in his old age, it's all frivolous. That says everything about his fear any story would ever need to say. THAT'S his ending, not his inevitable defeat. It's less about seeing him lose and more about seeing the point where he truly defines himself as the man who can't win...with the very name that defines his future.

It's the opposite of Megaman and Protoman, whose taken names and mission statements push them into the future. The entire series is about finding your identity. Megaman, Protoman, Wily, and Mr. X have all found them. There is NOTHING MORE, thematically, to say about these characters. That's an ending.
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Re: Mega Man #55 and Possible Reboot...?

Postby MetalSkulkBane » Thu Oct 29, 2015 11:51 am

...I'm not going to argue that story need to end with villains defeated, I'm sure there are examples that say otherwise. But is story only about character arc, while plot points and mysteries are just background for them? If Gravity Falls ended with everyone learning their lessons, but without final confrontation with Bill, would that be satisfying end to you?
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Re: Mega Man #55 and Possible Reboot...?

Postby GentlemanX » Thu Oct 29, 2015 11:55 am

The value and enjoyment of comedic reimaginings of existing material is an entirely subjective thing. The reason it's on the rise recently is because that's what kids watch; nothing more to it. Kids watch Adventure Time and Regular Show, and so they're also watching Teen Titans Go! and Sonic Boom. That's how that audience has grown. The action franchise of old has primarily moved to film; kids are watching the Marvel movies. That's where the audience for that material went so that's what continues to support that.

What I'm getting at is, financially speaking, the comedic reimagining craze we're seeing now is a fad. Things will change at some point, because that's how it always works. You may well see the likes of Teen Titans and Ben 10 Alien Force return somewhere down the line, just not right now is all. I wouldn't be surprised if the Man of Action series takes Mega Man in a comedic direction though. Again, that's the current market so it'll likely try to reflect that.

Personally, I have no interest on this self parody stuff. I get the joke, I don't think it's all that clever, and I'm not interested in seeing any more. I like serial media, I like watching characters develop and stuff happen. Sometimes I like analyzing material more, I certainly do that with Evangelion and Hunter x Hunter for example, but I more often just enjoy the material on its surface level, which I think especially with children's media is the intention. Is it clever when Batman The Animated Series has Adam West featured and what they do with him in the context of Batman The Animated Series? Yes. Is Batman The Animated Series about clever in jokes and commentary on the Batman franchise? No, it's about the adventures of Batman. I'm content with that, because that's what I want.

Bringing this back to the comic and the idea of a reboot, there's still a lot more in the Mega Man franchise I haven't been exposed to. I want to see who Quint and Bass are. I want to see the adventures that take place in Mega Man 5 and 6 and 7 etc. I've played a little of Mega Man 1, and I'm not interested in playing more of the games. I could track down the manga, but that's pretty much my only option. I'd get very little out of a parody of a franchise I've still seen so little of so all I can hope is that Archie doesn't choose to reboot it. Till then, I'm just waiting for issue 55, 53 was okay while 54 was just fantastic. Ready for that last issue.
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Re: Mega Man #55 and Possible Reboot...?

Postby Mordum » Thu Oct 29, 2015 12:52 pm

MetalSkulkBane wrote:...I'm not going to argue that story need to end with villains defeated, I'm sure there are examples that say otherwise. But is story only about character arc, while plot points and mysteries are just background for them? If Gravity Falls ended with everyone learning their lessons, but without final confrontation with Bill, would that be satisfying end to you?


The problem with that question is that you're picking a series and asking me if I'd like the conclusion I'm talking about contrary to the actual structure of the story. Dipper and Mabel vs the Future really plays up the idea the twins' world, as they know it, is ending...which leads into Weirdmaggedon, the actual end of the world. Stopping Bill is structurally important to the actual resolution of the climax of the story, which is likely Dipper and Mabel's world coming back together. Bill's defeat is necessary. Asking me that question is basically asking "Would you like an alternate version of Gravity Falls where defeating Bill Cipher wasn't necessary to the resolution of the story?" Which...yeah, that would be satisfying to me. It'd be built that way.

The example I'd use to illustrate my point is Joss Whedon's Angel. Since I'm not sure if you've seen it, the show is five seasons about a vampire with a soul, Angel, running a private detective agency in Los Angeles in order to earn his salvation via good deeds and become human again. Every season intentionally ends with a massive cliffhanger and plot hook for later stories for the finales, but not because they were baiting for future stories. Angel's entire point was that the fight never ends, that the effort to becoming a good person and doing good is NEVER over, so every seasonal arc ends on a cliffhanger. When the finale has Angel Investigations staring down an actual apocalypse, with @#$% engulfing Los Angeles and the villains finally reaching full power and we only see the moment RIGHT BEFORE the final battle, and not the battle itself...that IS incredibly satisfying. Because it's built into the point of the story, commits to its themes and messages, and stays true to what the emotional truth of the characters are. I don't NEED to see Angel slay a dragon like he wryly comments he's always wanted to do. The only thing you need the vampire with a soul to do is be WILLING to fight. Winning the fight doesn't matter.

But Angel did have a sequel that depicted that final battle. The After the Fall comic book. And I actually really love that comic. There're great revelations that reenforce Angel's character, and my favorite character in the entire show, Gunn, was arguably NEVER more fascinating than he was in that comic story. It may be his tour de force. Every character gets served well and there's some really emotional, heartbreaking stuff in that. Whedon and Lynch really give it their all in delivering what the Fall of Los Angeles really means to everyone and how much of a massive struggle it is just to survive. The battle between Angel and Gunn and the fallout of the Senior Partners and everything coming out into some big, final resolution that gives the Angel cast a really well deserved rest and send off for the difficult journey they've all gone through.

It wasn't worth it.

To try and provide Angel with such a definitive ending ran so contrary to the ENTIRE POINT of the character's story that as great as After the Fall is, I can't really regard it as a required part of the story. It's an extra, cute treat. A sequel with its own logic. But it's not that arc. As great as it all was, the idea that the whole thing just ends, and Angel's battle with Wolfram and Hart actually ending just does not make sense with what the story was about. Angel is about the difficulties of adulthood, the villains literal multiversal, demonic bureaucrats. To actually present a context where they could even so much as feel the need to back off is not the adult notion the series was built on.

Angel's story IS one that I saw "resolve" a cliffhanger that was a purely thematically intended ending, and no. I was not satisfied. I can appreciate After the Fall for all the things it does very, very well, but it absolutely was not a necessary addition to the material. It's better to regard it as a separate entity that happens to share continuity and cast, and not as the required reading it was advertised as. Angel ends at the end of season five, not at the end of After the Fall. The original ending, cliffhanger and all, makes more sense and is a more satisfying viewing experience.

And let's face it. Mega Man, as a story in the original games? It doesn't end. It just stops. The games very rightfully don't care about story and will pull together whatever scenario they need to in order to get a new game out. By the structure of those original games and the retro continuations, ANY of those games is a logical ending point. You could end at Megaman 2 and not feel like you're really missing anything, or 4 or 6 or whatever. There isn't an arc, there's no real theme (pacifism, where you're rewarded for killing people!). Because in a video game like that, those don't matter. They shouldn't matter. But if you're talking about adapting that material, there really is nothing that obligates someone to consider any ending point better than the other save for maybe wanting to see the cool robots.

Rock began the series calling himself Mega Man, the robot who destroys other robots. In Blue Shift, he's Mega Man, the robot who saves people. How is this not an ending?

GentlemanX wrote: I want to see the adventures that take place in Mega Man 5 and 6 and 7 etc. I've played a little of Mega Man 1, and I'm not interested in playing more of the games.


Then you don't get to have the story.

I don't know what else to tell you. "I want to see the stories of these source materials, but I refuse to actually indulge the source material" is, no offense, kind of ridiculous. It's not like the Archie comics represent some pure version of the story. It's not like the game designers intended to slot a prequel to Mega Man X between two of the games. Archie Megaman is NOT the same as the games. It is not telling the story of the games. It is telling an interpretation of that story, with a voice very specific to it. If you want more Archie Megaman, your other option isn't the Ariga manga. You don't have another option. It's just...done.

Your post has a valid perspective. If you like all ages entertainment on a surface level, that's really perfectly fine. But if I could play devil's advocate a bit: if you really only care about seeing these games adapted at all, because you don't want to play the games (but seem to feel the need to be told the story within those games), why does Archie's comic matter at all? Ariga already did it first, just go for that. Why does it matter is it's Archie or Ariga if you're content with a surface level enjoyment devoid of authorial voice (to the point where you do consider a completely different comic a valid alternative)? Why SHOULD it continue if you can replace it so easily?
Last edited by Mordum on Thu Oct 29, 2015 1:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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