Mega Man #47 - Spoilers/Discussion

Forum devoted to Mega Man by Archie Comics.

Re: Mega Man #47 - Spoilers/Discussion

Postby LBD_Nytetrayn » Fri Mar 27, 2015 2:01 pm

Mavrickindigo wrote:the stages were no joke either. Especially Needleman: death pit flying over nothingness with no source of energy after having to fight Air Man? Yikes


ProTip: Jump. A lot.

El Veinte wrote:The Copy Robot portion was adequate. Tragically killed just as he was making a heel-face turn and died trying to save Rock all the while reinforcing Doc Robot as the larger villain. This all would have felt more interesting if Hitoshi Ariga's Mega Mix hadn't done the same Copy Rock concept with greater pathos over 20 years ago, but I think readers who hadn't experienced that story already might connect more strongly with it here. To me it felt like a rushed retread on that idea, where I would have preferred to see something more original happen with the characters.


I honestly don't think the two are even comparable, aside from a few concepts tied to the games. I mean, I see where the comparison comes from, but it seems pretty surface level to me. This one doesn't seem like it was trying to be like Ariga's version at all to me.

--LBD "Nytetrayn"
User avatar
LBD_Nytetrayn
BumbleElite
 
Posts: 10987
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 6:19 pm
Location: Balloon Fight Arena

Re: Mega Man #47 - Spoilers/Discussion

Postby Sunwalker » Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:45 pm

I have read the issue today, and I didn't find it rushed.

The Yellow Devil fight was kick because the comic started "in medias res", but it had action and the conflict was dealt with in a logical manner.

The Copy Robot battle had him and Mega Man exchanging banter and switching weapons in order to attempt to top each other. But it was interesting to see that the Copy Robot was able to listen to reason in the end, and save Mega Man by sacrificing himself.

The DOC Robot fight was OK for me. I think that if a battle lasts for long in a comic book it will eat too much space, this isn't an animation. I found the fight quite varied, by him and Mega Man switching to a couple of different weapons, and I actually found it cool to see the DOC Robot getting overloaded by using too many weapons.

The Wily Machine 3 battle had a nod to the common strategy in the game to beat it, after you destroyed the bottom part you should use Rush Jet to get higher and hit the pod where Dr. Wily supposedly is. I enjoy seeing the references to the games. I remember this issue had other references, but this is the one that comes to the top of my mind now.

Yes, this issue had more content than usual in the same space. But I find that Ian is very skilled in getting the most from a limited space.

On a different note, after some months the digital version finally has the short-circuits and the letters again. Since nobody has posted it yet, here is the short-circuits of this issue:

Image
User avatar
Sunwalker
BumbleHonored
 
Posts: 657
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 6:55 pm
Location: Brazil

Re: Mega Man #47 - Spoilers/Discussion

Postby Archdeco » Sat Mar 28, 2015 7:49 am

The Wily decoys should be like the answering machine messages in Archer. Increasingly elaborate to the point of ludicrousness.
User avatar
Archdeco
BumbleFan
 
Posts: 158
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:06 pm

Re: Mega Man #47 - Spoilers/Discussion

Postby LBD_Nytetrayn » Sat Mar 28, 2015 1:04 pm

Archdeco wrote:The Wily decoys should be like the answering machine messages in Archer. Increasingly elaborate to the point of ludicrousness.


I'm an Archer noob; can you elaborate?

--LBD "Nytetrayn"
User avatar
LBD_Nytetrayn
BumbleElite
 
Posts: 10987
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 6:19 pm
Location: Balloon Fight Arena

Re: Mega Man #47 - Spoilers/Discussion

Postby Astrobot7000 » Sat Mar 28, 2015 3:32 pm

Archdeco wrote:The Wily decoys should be like the answering machine messages in Archer. Increasingly elaborate to the point of ludicrousness.


Haha, that would be great.
User avatar
Astrobot7000
BumbleNoble
 
Posts: 1776
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2008 3:20 pm

Re: Mega Man #47 - Spoilers/Discussion

Postby Axel T Rat » Sat Mar 28, 2015 4:17 pm

+Copy Robot still has the scarf
+Capsules being a nod to the boss rush
+Rock seems to be thinking more strategically as of late.
+Some pretty decent fights

-Half and half about the artwork
-too much on/off bold inflation in the text at times. Then again that's always been a problem with Archie
-Still hard to tell who's talking with Doc Robot at times
User avatar
Axel T Rat
BumbleKnight
 
Posts: 754
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:48 pm

Re: Mega Man #47 - Spoilers/Discussion

Postby SonicBlueRanger » Sat Mar 28, 2015 6:40 pm

LBD_Nytetrayn wrote:
Archdeco wrote:The Wily decoys should be like the answering machine messages in Archer. Increasingly elaborate to the point of ludicrousness.


I'm an Archer noob; can you elaborate?

--LBD "Nytetrayn"


Archer will have very detailed conversations when people call him and then it's revealed to be an overly complicated Answering Machine joke.
User avatar
SonicBlueRanger
BumbleChosen
 
Posts: 12370
Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 9:12 pm
Location: Angel Grove, CA

Re: Mega Man #47 - Spoilers/Discussion

Postby El Veinte » Mon Mar 30, 2015 4:42 am

LBD_Nytetrayn wrote:
I honestly don't think the two are even comparable, aside from a few concepts tied to the games. I mean, I see where the comparison comes from, but it seems pretty surface level to me. This one doesn't seem like it was trying to be like Ariga's version at all to me.

--LBD "Nytetrayn"


You know, you are right. I shouldn't make it sound like the plots closely mirror one another when they definitely do not. I remember in the podcast Ian kept saying he doesn't read Ariga, and I'm sure he wasn't out to rip it off or anything like that. I think in examining a copy robot redemption story my mind instantly went to Megamix for point of comparison as to why I wasn't especially impressed with it this time, but in retrospect the likeness is indeed skin deep. I think my point of contention is really that while Ariga set out for Copy Robot to be the central focus of his story, and thus the entire piece is leading to Copy Robot's internal antagonism and heroism, in issue 47 it was something that happened abruptly and ended even moreso. And I think perhaps what really set me off about it was that not only was there very little leading up to it, but it even seemed to fly in the face of who I thought the character was in this universe from before, making it feel rather cheap.

Both Copy Robot's previous appearances in Archie's Megaverse portray Copy Robot as a cruel figure, first silent and violent and then later as a jerk who genuinely enjoys cracking wise and causing trouble. In Worlds Collide, Mega Man doesn't even try reasoning with him, as though it would be a complete waste of time. In fact he seems to react to him more angrily than most other enemy encounters, and afterward muses that he should have been long dead-- not wistfully or regretfully, but simply matter-of-fact. Copy switching sides and sacrificing himself as he does in 47 doesn't lend itself smoothly with how we see their exchange play out in WC. It contrasts greatly with how Mega Man is quick to bring up that Ballade once helped him, even though from the games alone they could have fought each other twice after that, in World 5 and in MM10. Of course, one can't assume that those appearances will also occur in the Archie adaptations of said games. Even though Copy Robot never appears in games after MM3, Archie can easily pull Copy Robot out over for some other story that might lend itself more easily to Mega Man's reaction (outside of Megamix, Copy wouldn't normally be in a MM6 adaptation either, but issue 20 may draw that into question as well). It can also simply be a matter of untold things that got changed around in time with the Genesis Wave. But regardless of how that minor incongruency might be excused, it makes Copy Robot's personality tough to pin down, which makes it even harder to care about him.

It seems here in 47 that he does remember being the same Copy Robot as in issue 4, but he's also different as both he and Mega Man acknowledge. Was his IC chip destroyed in Wily's first castle, or does the actual machine that makes the copies store its IC data? Or is it simply recorded battle data he remembers, not the actual experience of being that same Copy Robot? In that case, would it even matter if its IC chip was destroyed as Mega Man said in WC? Could Wily continue to make copies for as long as he cares to spend the resources on it? Further, since we know special weapons on the copy chip can be scanned and duplicated, it probably should have also been able to copy the Magnet Beam, but moreover does the Copy also contain any of Mega Man's actual memories or personality? The scarf might imply that Copy could contain elements of Wily's evil virus persona of Mega Man from the MM2 arc. And issue 47 doesn't really address why the Copy suddenly has 2 additional holograph copies of himself, and while we know the reason is because they were there in the game, it isn't clear in the narrative why he has this ability now, or why if he is damaged enough they will disappear, rather than each being their own unique entities.

I suppose it all simply feels arbitrary, especially his sudden decision to defect. Which brings me back to the Ariga comparison, where the issues of how the Copy originated, who it is, its powers, and how it thinks are all well explored. With issue 47 there is less time, logic and emotion behind it because it was essentially a short setup for another character. And while Copy's assassination tipped Mega Man off to Doc Robot's internal conflict, that probably wasn't necessary in the first place since Dr. Light and Roll already witnessed Doc Robot's self-bickering firsthand and should have naturally included that info along with the conversation on Wily, Break Man and Gamma. It also heightens Doc Robot's cruelty and makes the reader question a little harder whether Doc Robot really deserved mercy. Not sure if that was the intention, since the end of the issue seems like we're supposed to pity Doc Robot instead.

So perhaps there were many unconscious reasons I didn't find the section as tight as the rest of this story arc, but having seen a much more involved Copy Robot change of heart story years back probably didn't help things any either.
El Veinte
BumbleFan
 
Posts: 85
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:25 am

Re: Mega Man #47 - Spoilers/Discussion

Postby TheMajinV » Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:15 pm

Axel T Rat wrote:-Still hard to tell who's talking with Doc Robot at times


It can be; the color code around his word bubbles works out like this:

Red = Quick
Blue = Air
Yellow = Flash
Green = Bubble
Orange = Crash
Brown = Wood
Black = Metal
Magenta (pinky-red) = Heat

Metal and Heat were tricky, at first, as neither of them had their first (and only lines) until this issue. The other six usually had some sort of hints in their lines to help identify with each color.
User avatar
TheMajinV
BumbleNewbie
 
Posts: 37
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 6:39 pm

Re: Mega Man #47 - Spoilers/Discussion

Postby FeroMcPigletron » Thu Apr 02, 2015 6:49 am

It was only one page but I loved the part with Copy bot turning good. Would it have been better if his sacrifice was delayed enough for him to help Megaman defeat Doc bot? Well, it would taken the focus away from Doc bot, though I would have liked it a lot if Doc survived to fight another day. Both deaths were brutal. Crash bomb to the chest and an almost execution style? Yikes.

Btw, Doc's weapon switching is controlled by his personality at that time? So it was Crash Man who thought to murder Copy? What a psycho.

Btw again, where did the Copy bot wearing a scarf come from? That's a Protoman thing. Genius idea of his using Gemini Man's double ability to make his holograms from the game boss stage. Obvious in retrospect but I never thought it it that way. I only thought of the Gemini laser. Very cool.

On pacing, would it have been better paced if the Yellow Devil fight happened last issue? I know it was monumental but I thought there was too much talk and fighting devoted to Break Man's battle. It could have been shortened so there's more time for Copy and Doc for this issue.

I'm still hoping that Doc comes back in some new form. Synergize his personalities to just one. But can he exist once the chips are returned to the game 2 robot masters?

On the fights, I think it's more of how the artist could have depicted them. It's not dynamic enough, sorry to say. Even a two page fight would be worth it if it was done dramatically and was made exciting enough. See the championship fights in Sonic. Just a few pages each but it was quite satisfying.
User avatar
FeroMcPigletron
BumbleFan
 
Posts: 171
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:01 pm
Location: Southeast Asia

Re: Mega Man #47 - Spoilers/Discussion

Postby SonicSoul » Thu Apr 02, 2015 7:07 am

The scarf was a nod to Powered-Up. In that game, Copy Robot, or as the game refers to him as "Mega Man?" had a purple scarf. The comic has had it before back in the MM2 arc when Rock got infected with Wily's virus and when Copy Robot was in WC.
SonicSoul
BumbleClan
 
Posts: 2856
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2010 2:24 pm

Re: Mega Man #47 - Spoilers/Discussion

Postby Uwaaii » Mon Apr 13, 2015 3:32 am

I feel the writers tried to squeeze too much in to one story. Because of bad pacing (like using one full issue for the Light family reunion, another issue solely for Breakman but using only one single issue to deal with the Yellow Devil, Copy, Doc Robot and Wily) or 8 stories/2 arcs (who even made the 4-stories per arc rule) not enough to cover the whole game, I don't know.

I keep thinking, “Maybe the rest of the issue is Megaman fighting [this boss]” or “Let's see how he’s gonna deal with that”, and then get disappointed because it all ends in a few pages. What's worse is that it actually looks like each fight is taking only a few minutes. Yikes Yellow Devil again, oh wait I know its weakness, one-shot KO. Copy fighting Mega man, defeated quickly, have change of heart with a few words and then suddenly dying right after. Doc Robot, oh god everyone’s inside, let’s overload them by telling them we can save them, I’m so sorry, bam.
I should have felt sorry for the robots or be tired of the fighting like Megaman does, but everything happened so fast and so brief I didn't even have time to feel anything.

It reminded me of the #20 time traveling issue for some reason; it may have been different if this issue was like a teaser/summary of what happens/happened. There are good comics that give in-depth character/development in only a few pages, but this one looks like they had a whole arc planned for this but trimmed it down to fit into one issue.
The other MM3 issues were pretty good and the art was great, which makes it even more sad.
User avatar
Uwaaii
BumbleFan
 
Posts: 107
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2015 3:09 am
Location: Where am I

Re: Mega Man #47 - Spoilers/Discussion

Postby LBD_Nytetrayn » Mon Apr 13, 2015 3:42 am

This is sort of the problem when adapting video game battles-- old ones especially, though some newer ones are about the same-- to another medium.

Video game battles are really repetitious. So while it's pretty epic as you're playing it, adapting it in full to a comic would probably not be as exciting as one thinks. Maybe some of these could be fleshed out a little more (I think shortening Yellow Devil's dodge-shoot-repeat in favor of some Copy Robot character development was favorable, though), but by comparison, a lot of these are probably going to seem a lot shorter unless you really start embellishing some things. And while that works more for actual characters like Robot Masters, I don't think seeing all five Kamegoros come out of the Kamegoro Maker in sequence would make for compelling reading.

Yellow Devil, I will admit, is a bit more of a middle ground. As I said elsewhere, I think/hope that going forward, maybe Ian can divorce some of the bosses from their placement more and do some more interesting things with them-- especially since we're more or less past the "iconic" phase of the series at this point.

--LBD "Nytetrayn"
User avatar
LBD_Nytetrayn
BumbleElite
 
Posts: 10987
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 6:19 pm
Location: Balloon Fight Arena

Re: Mega Man #47 - Spoilers/Discussion

Postby DoNotDelete » Fri Apr 17, 2015 2:34 am

Not to be impolite - and I take it that I am not the first person to say this - but I am not a fan of Odagawa's pencil work.

It is most noticeable in Mega Man's expression - or lack thereof. Mega Man has the same 'eyebrows down'/'frowny face' in at least 40% of the panel work and when his expression does change I find that the emotion is not conveyed as strongly as it could be. I guess what I am saying is that Odagawa does not give Mega Man the full range of expression he needs - he is only ever hitting the 'middle notes' or 'grey tones' and is never successful in conveying/hitting the extremes of emotion that some of the situations in the comic need. The parts where Mega Man is tearful are particularly unconvincing - as if the colourist merely overlayed tears onto yet another flat expression.

Scathing criticism aside, I hope that Odagawa has learned from this experience and will endeavour to expand upon his ability to communicate a wider range of character expressions in the future.
User avatar
DoNotDelete
BumbleCitizen
 
Posts: 329
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2015 2:17 am
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Mega Man #47 - Spoilers/Discussion

Postby El Veinte » Fri Apr 17, 2015 4:49 am

Agreed, the art was one of the weaker aspects of this arc.

One the subject of red vs pinky-red, I don't think I can tell the difference. Anybody want to discuss which lines were Heat and which are Quick's? The line in 46 about working up a sweat sounded like it could be a Heat quote to me, but then they both have a funny sarcasm to them. I think the lines "Finally!" and "So long, kid!" were (possibly?) different shades of red, but then which one is which?
El Veinte
BumbleFan
 
Posts: 85
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:25 am

Previous

Return to For Everlasting Peace!



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

cron