Mega Man #47 - Spoilers/Discussion

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Mega Man #47 - Spoilers/Discussion

Postby Kureejii Lea » Wed Mar 18, 2015 12:43 pm

Have at it.
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Re: Mega Man #47 - Spoilers/Discussion

Postby Penguin God » Wed Mar 18, 2015 3:10 pm

It's really bad.

Seriously, half the scenes are completely pointless and boring, and they take away from what good the issue accomplishes. The Yellow Devil Mark 2 shoots a laser, gets shot in the eye and falls. Not exciting, not interesting, pointless. The Wily Walker shoots a laser, gets shot and falls. Not exciting, not interesting, pointless. The Gamma headshot is immediately nullified, but really it's nullified before it even happens because we already knew that Wily was building the secondary command module. None of these sequences are necessary and the art is still clunky so there's not even enjoyment from just watching a good fight.
The two scenes that COULD be good are totally ruined by being crammed between all these boring setpieces. Copy Robot is a decent bit aside from copying the Gemini Man solution, and his scene has a very interesting bit where Mega Man is actually able to reason with him to possibly act nice. This is ruined by the end though, where Doc Robot blows him up literally on the same page (in an awkward off-panel 'fa-foom') and Mega Man forgets it ever happened less than half a page later. The Doc Robot fight isn't really that interesting in execution (he's pretty weak going up against Mega Man and the dialog is really schmaltzy, and it sort of undercuts the recurring theme of robots being bound by their programming, especially the Mega 2 Wilybots that were explicitly evil soldiers) but at least in concept it's pretty neat so I'd let that slide if it weren't for everything else.
There are so many problems, and they would be so easy to fix. Get rid of the Yellow Devil and the Wily Walker, and move the lament over destroying Gamma to next issue where the Gamma ight actually happens. That frees up a whole SEVEN PAGES (nearly half an issue) to properly deal with Copy Robot and Doc Robot, who had been hyped up the entire arc and deserved a way better ending than this.
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Re: Mega Man #47 - Spoilers/Discussion

Postby Bean » Thu Mar 19, 2015 5:22 am

I'm a little nicer on it, but I have the same issues with the pacing in this one. It reminded me of both the Mega Man 1 and 2 arc's third issues where things were just flying along. Both Yellow Devil and Copy Robot are beaten in the first five pages. Now I did like the Doc Robot fight even with that ending being teased from the moment they were all crammed into that one unit because it made sense.

I kind of expected things to be rushed in this issue from the moment I saw the Devil's appearance on the last page of #46. It makes a bit of sense as the MM3 fortress flies right by, but still, this was the weakest issue to me of an otherwise great arc. Hoping this means that the finale with Wily and Gamma, even though that fight can also be beaten in mere seconds, will be a good one.
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Re: Mega Man #47 - Spoilers/Discussion

Postby Tylinos » Thu Mar 19, 2015 3:31 pm

Unfortunately, I have to mostly agree with Penguin God. The issue wasn't very good.

The Yellow Devil was dealt with in less than two pages, making it feel pointless. And then immediately afterward, Copy Robot just gets thrown in with almost no fanfare, for a pointless fight that felt thrown in just to remind us that Copy Robot existed.

I know Ian wants to follow what was in the games, and has limited page space to do so (even though this arc had double the length of most arcs), but there are better ways to go about it. It doesn't have to match exactly. One of the Mega Man 1 bosses was shifted over to the Powered Up arc instead, for instance.

Anyway, even after all that, the battle with Doc Robot was...messy. I was okay with the bickering between Doc Robot's parts, but the overload from it at the end felt like a hollow cop-out. Why force in two other fights and rush through them if the big fight they're making way for has such a cheap ending that doesn't live up to Doc Robot's long build-up?

Oh, and then Wily Machine 3 shows up with even less fanfare or breathing room than Copy Robot got. It's just suddenly there and goes down in two pages, serving only to show where Mega Man should go next. At least the part with Gamma had some heart in it, but even then Wily just kind of swoops in to interrupt.

In all, it's just not Ian's finest hour of writing. So many changes could have been made to free up space. Like Penguin God said, cut either Yellow Devil or Copy Robot so the other can get a proper scene. Cut Wily Machine 3 and just have Gamma waiting in the room past Doc Robot, using the extra three pages to give Doc Robot a worthwhile end.

I can only hope the finale comes out better now that everything else is out of the way and only Gamma remains.
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Re: Mega Man #47 - Spoilers/Discussion

Postby Mavrickindigo » Fri Mar 20, 2015 11:33 pm

To add to the whole "its bad" thing, I think its interesting that earlier I complained that Ian wasn't following the games 100%, and he said something, I don't remember what, that implied he was going to do the spirit without doing the exact letter of the game's timeline.

Yet here we have four boss fights crammed into the book, its the Mega Man and Mega Man 2 arc all over again.

Really, they could have replaced Wily Machine 3 with the Wily Walker and called it a day. It didn't have to be in this arc, because the Wily Walker was in the previous arc. Yeah, that would mess with the numbering, I guess, but maybe Wily could have had a throwaway line calling the Wily Walker "Wily Machine 3" or something.

And the first part of the gamma fight just felt like another check box to go along with everything else.

I never did like the idea that the whole Doc Robot as an amalgamation of the Mega Man 2 robot masters. Do you think maybe Ian just... wrote himself into a corner with this one? It feels like that. I write stories online on my role play forum, and often I and realize there are a bunch more things I needed to cram in there at the end, and just shove it in awkwardly. This feels a lot like that.
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Re: Mega Man #47 - Spoilers/Discussion

Postby SonicBlueRanger » Sat Mar 21, 2015 10:59 am

I'll agree it's weaker than the past two issues and it's passed way too quickly but you guys are acting like there's zero redeeming qualities in this issue.

The Copy Robot thing seems like it could be leading to something interesting, While the over heating thing was a bit forced the over all fight with Copy Robot had some really neat moments like the possible foreshadowing of Wood Man joining Mega Man's side and the smaller moment of seeing rush catch Shadow Man's blade. :(hearty laughter):

I admit the issue has passing issues and the fight's with Yellow Devil 2 and Wily Machine 3 were done way too quickly but I feel the Copy Robot fight was actually pretty well done and while the Overheating thing was a bit convenient it made some logical sense as well It is 8 Robots in one body.

Over all the weakest issue of the whole Mega Man 3 arc but it's still a pretty fun ride IMHO.
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Re: Mega Man #47 - Spoilers/Discussion

Postby Mavrickindigo » Sat Mar 21, 2015 11:22 am

I never did like the "8 robot masters in one body" thing. I preferred the games where there were 8 Doc Robots and they each used the weapon systems from different robots. They could have gone with one Doc Robot and having it have all the abilities of the other robots.

Did Ian feel like it'd be too similar to Ra Thor? Ra Thor didn't have their powers, though.
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Re: Mega Man #47 - Spoilers/Discussion

Postby Tylinos » Sat Mar 21, 2015 3:57 pm

SonicBlueRanger wrote:I'll agree it's weaker than the past two issues and it's passed way too quickly but you guys are acting like there's zero redeeming qualities in this issue.

There were redeeming qualities (some of the MM2 Robot Masters' bickering was fun, and I liked how their personalities clashed), but the bad really outweighed the good for me on this one.
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Re: Mega Man #47 - Spoilers/Discussion

Postby Penguin God » Sat Mar 21, 2015 5:04 pm

I actually wish there was more done with the eight weapons in one robot idea. Doc Robot's actual fight is really lame, and he's shown to just be a worse Mega Man. Why bother making him instead of having all eight Robot Masters? It's an absolute downgrade. Doc Robot was played up to be frightening and powerful for the first half of the arc, but in the end Mega Man destroys him easily before destroying him emotionally (in a speech that doesn't really take advantage of any of the MM2's personalities, and with Mega Man's "hey let me rebuild you speech" becoming bog standard after it happens twice in a row.)

There are good moments in this, but none I would call redeeming. Copy Robot is the one bit that's sort of interesting, and it's literally blown to pieces before it can go anywhere. Doc Robot is just disappointing.
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Re: Mega Man #47 - Spoilers/Discussion

Postby akessel92 » Sat Mar 21, 2015 10:05 pm

Mavrickindigo wrote:I never did like the "8 robot masters in one body" thing. I preferred the games where there were 8 Doc Robots and they each used the weapon systems from different robots. They could have gone with one Doc Robot and having it have all the abilities of the other robots.

Did Ian feel like it'd be too similar to Ra Thor? Ra Thor didn't have their powers, though.

I thought it was four not eight.
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Re: Mega Man #47 - Spoilers/Discussion

Postby megabeatman » Sun Mar 22, 2015 2:09 am

akessel92 wrote:
Mavrickindigo wrote:I never did like the "8 robot masters in one body" thing. I preferred the games where there were 8 Doc Robots and they each used the weapon systems from different robots. They could have gone with one Doc Robot and having it have all the abilities of the other robots.

Did Ian feel like it'd be too similar to Ra Thor? Ra Thor didn't have their powers, though.

I thought it was four not eight.


There are eight Doc robots in the game. Mega Man revisits four stages and fights two per stage.
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Re: Mega Man #47 - Spoilers/Discussion

Postby Astrobot7000 » Sun Mar 22, 2015 10:04 am

I also thought this was a poor issue. This is a shame because otherwise all of the other issues making up the third game arc have been excellent. Why was the Yellow Devil mkII even included? It went down in 2 pages, and half of one of those pages is a giant panel. The Copy Robot was a waste. Rock talks him down (much, much too easily) and he is instantly executed. The Wily Machine was taken down in one to two hits (this seems to be an ongoing theme of the series; Wily's creations are destroyed in one to hits).

The only thing I liked about this issue was the Doc Robot fight. Well, not the fight itself (Doc Robot is disappointingly weak against Mega Man), but I like how Mega Man won by luck, rather than just being flat out stronger. It was a refreshing change of pace. I know it feels like a cop out to some people, but having a luck break is fun sometimes too. As long as it doesn't become a theme.
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Re: Mega Man #47 - Spoilers/Discussion

Postby Ian Flynn » Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:17 pm

Yowza. I'll get into why I did some things the way I did, not as an excuse, but as an explanation. I tried a few things, and for most of y'all, they didn't work.

Why bother with Yellow Devil and Wily Machine 3?
The former was because of the structure I've had to adhere to: open on an action beat, end on a cliffhanger. And while many readers are accepting, understanding and even welcoming of my going off the beaten path of the games, others cry foul. I caught flack for moving the one MM1 mini-boss to the second arc, for introducing Pharaoh Man before MM4, for adding human characters, etc.

Yellow Devil mk. 2 isn't a remarkable mini-boss, he's fodder. So he made for a convenient ending menace, opening threat, and scratched the itch of the purists. He went down quickly so that I could devote as much page time as possible to Copy Robot and Doc Robot. I figured in was a win/win/win scenario. In retrospect, it may have been better to drop him and use Copy Robot in his stead. Given that Part 1 was the trauma of Dr. Wily's betrayal, and Part 2 was devoted to the showdown we've been building up between Mega Man and Break Man, I don't know where else I could have put him. Perhaps if I'd killed him off in the last pages of Part 2 and ended on Copy Robot?

As for Wily Machine 3, this ties into "Dawn of X." I was told to do a Classic/X crossover for the 2014 summer event, and the Wily Walker was developed as the bridging device. I wanted to highlight the design parallels with the Wily Machine 3 so that "Dawn of X" didn't feel completely like a cash-in event, but rather part of Dr. Wily's legacy. Because it wasn't that exciting of a boss fight, and I wanted to reserve as much page space to Copy Robot and Doc Robot as I could, it went down quickly.

Why only one Doc Robot?
Because there was no room to show Mega Man retreading old ground and blowing through eight rehash bosses. That, and I thought that would be boring. It's challenging enough to find an angle on the regular Robot Masters to make the eight rounds interesting. (I originally pitched "Legends of the Blue Bomber" as entirely from the Robot Masters' perspective, but that was deemed too experimental) I could find a twist to re-fighting the MM2 Robot Masters in mass-produced Doc Robots, but there wouldn't be time to fully explore it.

So instead I went with the "Frankenstein's monster" route. Doc Robot is supposed to be a twisted version of Mega Man - where our hero respects the identities of his enemies and takes only their weapons, Doc Robot is a callous amalgamation of the fallen with the sole purpose of being powerful. As Mega Man wins, he becomes more whole. Doc Robot was rushed to meet the same end, and the results are debilitating. Mega Man was built and armed with love, Doc Robot was built and armed for hateful purposes.

That's what I was aiming for, at least.
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Re: Mega Man #47 - Spoilers/Discussion

Postby squeakyboots13 » Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:28 pm

Ian Flynn wrote:(I originally pitched "Legends of the Blue Bomber" as entirely from the Robot Masters' perspective, but that was deemed too experimental)

That would be cool for one of the later games.
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Re: Mega Man #47 - Spoilers/Discussion

Postby Penguin God » Wed Mar 25, 2015 6:30 pm

My earlier posts make it seem like I wanted multiple Doc Robots perhaps, but really I liked having only one and having him be a big scary tough monster. My problem is that in the issue he isn't one. He's beaten by Mega Man handily and comes off as more pathetic than frightening, and just shorts out instead of really being challenged.
There's no reason that the Yellow Devil Mk. II and the Wily Machine 3 needed their own scenes if they were so obviously boring even before their scene was written. If it's a question of scratching the purists or having a good story, the purists should absolutely lose. Yeah, there was flack for introducing Pharaoh Man early, moving a boss, and adding extra characters but the series still wasn't afraid to do those things. To use up half of an important issue for such a small concession feels like a loss for everybody. The Wily Machine 3 is even worse than the Yellow Devil (although the Yellow Devil absolutely fails at opening as a threat, it at least opens as an action beat.) It doesn't even try to be engaging, and just serves to kill any tension that Doc Robot and Gamma were trying to build.
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