Bridging the gap. The Classic to X interim. What do we know?

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Re: Bridging the gap. The Classic to X interim. What do we k

Postby LBD_Nytetrayn » Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:58 pm

I think my favorite part might be how his "mind-blowing" theories are pretty old-hat for some of us. ;P

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Re: Bridging the gap. The Classic to X interim. What do we k

Postby El Veinte » Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:25 am

Can one really call it a coincidence that more than one Mega Man forum would have topics discussing a recent video about Mega Man? It is the kind of video that renews people's interest and gets fans talking, so LBD I think you should post it as-is and let it encourage discussion.

Zan you've also posted some really interesting stuff there! With some reflection, I think that Maverick/Irregular virus does constitute a name and was used in-universe, up until Sigma's reputation and Doppler's famous discoveries finally made the Sigma Virus name stick more conclusively. I also think Wily would have had a name for the virus. If the century-old computer virus the Rockman Zero Collection website was hinting at was Roboenza, then he might have called it by a strain or version number of that. The idea I currently like best is for him to call it his Life Virus (or Dream Virus for Japan) as a fitting reference to Battle Network. After all it's a culmination of Wily's life's work, in pursuit of his life-long dreams, and even brings him back to life (somehow) and even pop up in Zero's dreams. Fits so nice. Make it happen, Ian!

I also think RaToraTa makes a good point there about Wily's intentions and the purpose of the virus. If Zero was fine sitting in that capsule along with the virus for some hundred years and only gets infected after Sigma manages to rough him up a bit, then I;d say Wily was either going about changing Zero's personality in the entirely wrong manner or else that he didn't even know the virus could affect Zero that way until he was shown that it was possible. There's mention in X5 and that same Japanese Zero website about Zero having antivirus measures, and that factoring into why it takes so much virus to overcome him. It doesn't seem like a good idea on Wily's part to give Zero an antivirus of the thing he's trying to infect Zero with, unless Zero was meant to be immune to its power. Between Roboenza and Power Fighters' "other project" in Bass' ending, it seems like the initial virus in general existed prior to and separate from the need to reprogram Zero's specific cognitive flaws. For X5's Zero Virus yes definitely that was why it was made, but as the purpose for creating the virus in the first place, it doesn't really fit. Think I still prefer the theory that Zero was designed to be able to use the virus to power up his body and control other robots, the way Sigma does with the virus and Omega eventually does with the Dark Elf. Zero actually being infected and changing personalities remaining unexpected and ironic twists of fate.
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Re: Bridging the gap. The Classic to X interim. What do we k

Postby Zan » Fri Apr 04, 2014 7:23 am

I think that Maverick/Irregular virus does constitute a name and was used in-universe, up until Sigma's reputation and Doppler's famous discoveries finally made the Sigma Virus name stick more conclusively.


I don't know. Maverick/Irregular Virus seems more like a descriptive term to me. Even if considered an actual name, it's not a very concrete one. It got hijacked by Sigma rather quickly.

I also think Wily would have had a name for the virus. If the century-old computer virus the Rockman Zero Collection website was hinting at was Roboenza, then he might have called it by a strain or version number of that.


Naturally. We're not privy to that name, however.

There's mention in X5 and that same Japanese Zero website about Zero having antivirus measures, and that factoring into why it takes so much virus to overcome him.


If you can read Japanese, or have a translation at hand. I'd love to see one. Several of the character profiles on that site have remained elusive to me (in particular Omega's and Elpis').

it seems like the initial virus in general existed prior to and separate from the need to reprogram Zero's specific cognitive flaws.


Perhaps. It's a possibility. I've addressed this at Capcom Unity a little more also; Zero's virus immunity definitely predates the fix of his cognitive flaw. The two systems are ever competing.

Think I still prefer the theory that Zero was designed to be able to use the virus to power up his body and control other robots, the way Sigma does with the virus and Omega eventually does with the Dark Elf. Zero actually being infected and changing personalities remaining unexpected and ironic twists of fate.


There's no doubt in my mind that this is one potential outcome of Wily's plans. However, to do so, Zero's cognitive flaw requires fixing first. Omega, despite his bloodthirst, is at least a little more receptive to commands than Irregular Zero. As such, awakening only after coming into contact with such great quantities of virus actually works in Wily's favor.
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Re: Bridging the gap. The Classic to X interim. What do we k

Postby LBD_Nytetrayn » Fri Apr 04, 2014 5:17 pm

El Veinte wrote:Can one really call it a coincidence that more than one Mega Man forum would have topics discussing a recent video about Mega Man? It is the kind of video that renews people's interest and gets fans talking, so LBD I think you should post it as-is and let it encourage discussion.


Fair enough, though I suppose I should find wording that's less derisive than "see how many flaws you can point out in this video that otherwise states things we already knew." ;P

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Re: Bridging the gap. The Classic to X interim. What do we k

Postby Penguin God » Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:27 pm

If Wily wanted to fix Zero, he could have just reprogrammed him. He doesn't seem the type to try and 'fix' his robot's personality flaws, especially through such roundabout means.
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Re: Bridging the gap. The Classic to X interim. What do we k

Postby LBD_Nytetrayn » Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:46 pm

If memory serves, though, that's what sets Reploid-level robots apart, in that they aren't "programmed" in the traditional sense.

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Re: Bridging the gap. The Classic to X interim. What do we k

Postby Zan » Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:06 pm

Penguin God wrote:If Wily wanted to fix Zero, he could have just reprogrammed him. He doesn't seem the type to try and 'fix' his robot's personality flaws, especially through such roundabout means.


Wily's death makes any attempted fix of Zero's A.I. problematic. The change to Hunter Zero was not part of the plan by any means either. After which, Wily required further Sigma Virus to control Zero (X2 and X5).
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Re: Bridging the gap. The Classic to X interim. What do we k

Postby Acrosurge » Mon Apr 07, 2014 5:59 pm

Zan wrote:
Penguin God wrote:If Wily wanted to fix Zero, he could have just reprogrammed him. He doesn't seem the type to try and 'fix' his robot's personality flaws, especially through such roundabout means.


Wily's death makes any attempted fix of Zero's A.I. problematic. The change to Hunter Zero was not part of the plan by any means either. After which, Wily required further Sigma Virus to control Zero (X2 and X5).
If Wily were actually able to change Zero's personality/A.I./soul/whateveryouprefer, it seems prior to X6 would have been the time to do it, since Zero's body was near death and incapable of resistance. Light (disembodied as he appears to be) repaired X after X5 and, in the alternate ending, even changed X's memories to write Zero out of them. Wily could have done the same. Yet, Zero reappears fully healed in X6 with no changes to his personality. To me, this is a strong indicator that Wily cannot or will not alter Zero's identity.
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Re: Bridging the gap. The Classic to X interim. What do we k

Postby Zan » Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:10 pm

If Wily were actually able to change Zero's personality/A.I./soul/whateveryouprefer, it seems prior to X6 would have been the time to do it, since Zero's body was near death and incapable of resistance. Light (disembodied as he appears to be) repaired X after X5 and, in the alternate ending, even changed X's memories to write Zero out of them. Wily could have done the same. Yet, Zero reappears fully healed in X6 with no changes to his personality. To me, this is a strong indicator that Wily cannot or will not alter Zero's identity.


X2 utilized a direct Sigma Virus chip implanted in Zero's body to control him. X5 utilized the Zero Virus to overpower his defenses. Why Isoc neglected to do the same prior to the repaired Zero fleeing from his grasp is anyone's guess. However...

"I can capture you at any time."

"Go Zero, you are the strongest robot."

While Wily may indeed be quite contend, sitting this one out; it's also subject to his whims and fancy.
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Re: Bridging the gap. The Classic to X interim. What do we k

Postby LBD_Nytetrayn » Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:53 pm

Was it ever confirmed that Isoc was the one who fixed Zero in X6?

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Re: Bridging the gap. The Classic to X interim. What do we k

Postby Zan » Tue Apr 08, 2014 6:21 am

Not "confirmed" per se, more so heavily implied.

-X was saved by miraculous means. By his own admission, Zero was saved by equally miraculous means.
-Light did not save Zero. When Zero first woke up, he could move despite the damages and fled the scene.
-Isoc claims to have seen the original Zero before any one else, Gate included.
-Isoc knows the most about Zero. He's able to capture Zero in a protective force field for that very reason.
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Re: Bridging the gap. The Classic to X interim. What do we k

Postby LilacDownDeep » Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:28 am

Wait, I looked at my sig again and I suddenly wondered...

if R-Shadow wanted to erase the robots of this time, couldn't he have just killed Dr. Light and Wily BEFORE they made all those robots? Or is that too much of a Grandfather Paradox?
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Re: Bridging the gap. The Classic to X interim. What do we k

Postby Radz the Hedgehog » Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:57 am

Penguin God wrote:If Wily wanted to fix Zero, he could have just reprogrammed him. He doesn't seem the type to try and 'fix' his robot's personality flaws, especially through such roundabout means.

I don't think Wily wanted to reprogram Zero. I don't think he wanted him to become a Hunter though. I think his original, crazy personality is how he was created. I don't think it was a programming flaw that made him crazy...I think he was created crazy by design.

I feel that Wily created Zero, not to be used while he was alive, but rather as his big "screw you" to the world AFTER he's already "dead." He made him to be utterly crazy and destructive. The virus was designed to create an "army" for Zero. The problem is that Zero's anti-virus was (ironically) unable to handle Wily's own virus. It altered his personality just as it does all other Reploids, but it was actually a positive alteration rather than negative. Whether this is due to a fault within his anti-virus, the virus itself, or perhaps even that it has something to do with this mysterious third energy, it's not very clear.

It could be that if the virus is based on the third energy, Zero, having no real personality or heart since he was pretty much all instinct, was given the chance for the energy to change into either positive or negative energy. Could also explain the less than predictable spread of the virus as well. X is immune possibly because of his superior anti-virus, but if it's energy based and should ultimately circumvent any programmatic measures, it could be that X's heart is unwaveringly good due to being in the capsule for 100 years. Mavericks are created not by strictly being infected, but only if they have that seed of evil within their hearts already.

LilacDownDeep wrote:if R-Shadow wanted to erase the robots of this time, couldn't he have just killed Dr. Light and Wily BEFORE they made all those robots? Or is that too much of a Grandfather Paradox?

I think that line is complete BS on his part. I think it was the grand, threatening gesture, but I think his underlying motive was to be destroyed. He felt that Mega Man and Bass were the only robots that could stop him.
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Re: Bridging the gap. The Classic to X interim. What do we k

Postby LBD_Nytetrayn » Tue Apr 08, 2014 4:19 pm

Zan wrote:-Light did not save Zero. When Zero first woke up, he could move despite the damages and fled the scene.


How do we know Light didn't?

Radz the Hedgehog wrote:
Penguin God wrote:If Wily wanted to fix Zero, he could have just reprogrammed him. He doesn't seem the type to try and 'fix' his robot's personality flaws, especially through such roundabout means.

I don't think Wily wanted to reprogram Zero. I don't think he wanted him to become a Hunter though. I think his original, crazy personality is how he was created. I don't think it was a programming flaw that made him crazy...I think he was created crazy by design.

I feel that Wily created Zero, not to be used while he was alive, but rather as his big "screw you" to the world AFTER he's already "dead." He made him to be utterly crazy and destructive. The virus was designed to create an "army" for Zero. The problem is that Zero's anti-virus was (ironically) unable to handle Wily's own virus. It altered his personality just as it does all other Reploids, but it was actually a positive alteration rather than negative. Whether this is due to a fault within his anti-virus, the virus itself, or perhaps even that it has something to do with this mysterious third energy, it's not very clear.

It could be that if the virus is based on the third energy, Zero, having no real personality or heart since he was pretty much all instinct, was given the chance for the energy to change into either positive or negative energy. Could also explain the less than predictable spread of the virus as well. X is immune possibly because of his superior anti-virus, but if it's energy based and should ultimately circumvent any programmatic measures, it could be that X's heart is unwaveringly good due to being in the capsule for 100 years. Mavericks are created not by strictly being infected, but only if they have that seed of evil within their hearts already.


Except the entire reason Zero was locked away, as I recall, was due to Wily's inability to control him.

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Re: Bridging the gap. The Classic to X interim. What do we k

Postby Zan » Tue Apr 08, 2014 4:34 pm

if R-Shadow wanted to erase the robots of this time, couldn't he have just killed Dr. Light and Wily BEFORE they made all those robots? Or is that too much of a Grandfather Paradox?


Shadow lied about wanting to destroy all the robots of that time. He actually sought to do battle with opponents stronger than himself.

I don't think Wily wanted to reprogram Zero. I don't think he wanted him to become a Hunter though. I think his original, crazy personality is how he was created. I don't think it was a programming flaw that made him crazy...I think he was created crazy by design.


Zero was produced by Dr. Wily, who schemed at taking over the world. But he contained a flaw in his cognitive program that made him violent and unwilling to obey instructions, so Dr. Wily himself sealed Zero in a capsule.

It is how it is.
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