Bridging the gap. The Classic to X interim. What do we know?

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Re: Bridging the gap. The Classic to X interim. What do we k

Postby Zan » Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:30 pm

In general, I agree, but all it takes is one *ahem* maverick-- one of those people who doesn't revere Inafune but loves Mega Man, thinking they can do better-- put in charge of writing this thing to take it somewhere else entirely.


When that time comes, we will see if that irregular shall soon retire, or usher in a new world order.

If you are worried that X and Zero will be portrayed as physically superior to the Classic cast, than I cannot share that concern, as this is implied by the lore and by Capcom statements.


While I've no problems considering X and Zero physically superior to the entire classic cast (alien robots, excluded), I also don't think the gap is as large as some people think it is. I wonder if the Ruby Spears cartoon (or perhaps the X4 flashback?) is somehow responsible for an exaggerated impression of their strength.

Interesting how Rockman Online compares Forte's strength and A.I. to the earliest Reploid prototypes.

(even the ones I tried to bury :(hearty laughter):).


If you don't mind me asking: which information in particular does this concern?

Speaking of the post-Inafune era franchise, do you think the plot elements of Rockman Xover (thinly woven as they are) could be included as another missing link in the classic-X span, or should it be considered entirely its own separate canon-sphere?


I certainly would not oppose any plot elements introduced by Xover, however I've not heard much of anything specifically related to the interim. The detail on beamsaber technology was neat, though.
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Re: Bridging the gap. The Classic to X interim. What do we k

Postby LBD_Nytetrayn » Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:36 pm

Zan wrote:
If you are worried that X and Zero will be portrayed as physically superior to the Classic cast, than I cannot share that concern, as this is implied by the lore and by Capcom statements.


While I've no problems considering X and Zero physically superior to the entire classic cast (alien robots, excluded), I also don't think the gap is as large as some people think it is. I wonder if the Ruby Spears cartoon (or perhaps the X4 flashback?) is somehow responsible for an exaggerated impression of their strength.


It was "Mega Buster mark 17" basically being the starting point for X and everyone pointing and laughing at him until he became even stronger still that kind of set that in motion for me. Mega X just sort of backed it up, and maybe that Cut Man fight simulation in X8 (for whatever it's worth) seemed to sort of confirm it.

The detail on beamsaber technology was neat, though.


What was this, again? Something about the tech not being available in 20XX, wasn't it?

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Re: Bridging the gap. The Classic to X interim. What do we k

Postby Acrosurge » Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:33 pm

LBD_Nytetrayn wrote:I just mean that whoever oversees Mega Man X9 and its story is pretty much being given the keys to the castle, and anything not explicitly defined in the games-- i.e. "Word of God" stuff-- can potentially be thrown out the window.
Ah, I see. The creator holds the power of canon. When you have multiple creators, potentially new additions may be made to the canon unless attempts are made to harmonize the revisions. Such is our fiction.

LBD_Nytetrayn wrote:
Zan wrote:While I've no problems considering X and Zero physically superior to the entire classic cast (alien robots, excluded), I also don't think the gap is as large as some people think it is. I wonder if the Ruby Spears cartoon (or perhaps the X4 flashback?) is somehow responsible for an exaggerated impression of their strength.


It was "Mega Buster mark 17" basically being the starting point for X and everyone pointing and laughing at him until he became even stronger still that kind of set that in motion for me. Mega X just sort of backed it up, and maybe that Cut Man fight simulation in X8 (for whatever it's worth) seemed to sort of confirm it.

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Not to mention Dr. Wily's statement about Zero in Bass's Power Fighters ending:

I've created a new type of robot which is much more powerful than you or Mega Man! ... This robot's power level is far superior to yours.
Phrases like "much more powerful" and "far" do seem to suggest a significant difference in power level between Bass/Mega Man and Zero.
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Re: Bridging the gap. The Classic to X interim. What do we k

Postby Zan » Thu Mar 06, 2014 6:32 pm

What was this, again? Something about the tech not being available in 20XX, wasn't it?


Yep.

Phrases like "much more powerful" and "far" do seem to suggest a significant difference in power level between Bass/Mega Man and Zero.


The problem with that is how it assumes such progress to stay exclusive with X and Zero. For all we know, Rockman wields the Rock Buster Mk. 16 by the time Wily completes Zero.
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Re: Bridging the gap. The Classic to X interim. What do we k

Postby LBD_Nytetrayn » Thu Mar 06, 2014 7:01 pm

Zan wrote:
What was this, again? Something about the tech not being available in 20XX, wasn't it?


Yep.

Phrases like "much more powerful" and "far" do seem to suggest a significant difference in power level between Bass/Mega Man and Zero.


The problem with that is how it assumes such progress to stay exclusive with X and Zero. For all we know, Rockman wields the Rock Buster Mk. 16 by the time Wily completes Zero.


True, and I kind of figured as much, though that would still likely be a ways from where the series sits now, which is largely what I think people look at, whether "now" was Mega Man 7 or Mega Man 10. If it goes on long enough and we see improvements in Rock, then yeah, that gap is likely to close at least a bit.

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Re: Bridging the gap. The Classic to X interim. What do we k

Postby Acrosurge » Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:05 pm

Zan wrote:
Phrases like "much more powerful" and "far" do seem to suggest a significant difference in power level between Bass/Mega Man and Zero.


The problem with that is how it assumes such progress to stay exclusive with X and Zero. For all we know, Rockman wields the Rock Buster Mk. 16 by the time Wily completes Zero.
Isn't that also an assumption and an arbitrary one? After all, Mega Man lost his charge capability and his slide sometime before MM9, and was not upgraded before MM10. For all we know, Light might never advance Mega Man's buster beyond the Hyper Mega Buster. The additional upgrades might have all have been developed exclusively for Light's X project to help fulfill X's role as the future world's new champion.

Both ideas are speculations. What we know (the subject of this thread) is that Wily stated Zero to be far more powerful than Bass or Mega Man as they existed in Power Fighters.
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Re: Bridging the gap. The Classic to X interim. What do we k

Postby Zan » Fri Mar 07, 2014 12:18 am

Isn't that also an assumption and an arbitrary one?


Yes. I just feel it's rather shortsighted to consider only one end of the spectrum.

Between defeat and victory in a hypothetical battle of Zero against Rockman, both sides can be argued. Such is the nature of using our imagination: it all depends on how we draft up the scenario. In this case, I feel the outcome is more a matter of taste and personal preference than anything.

That said: would you prefer to tackle such a story from a classic-series or from an X-series perspective? Or rather, any story told exactly in the middle of the series gap, no matter the subject, what style and atmosphere should it adhere to? When and how does the happy go lucky turn grimdark? Is it a gradual progression or a sudden shift?
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Re: Bridging the gap. The Classic to X interim. What do we k

Postby LBD_Nytetrayn » Fri Mar 07, 2014 2:20 am

I always kind of saw it as Mega Man winning over Zero, but only just, perhaps at the cost of his own life.

Well, aside from other ideas I've had. But that's been one of the frontrunners.

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Re: Bridging the gap. The Classic to X interim. What do we k

Postby El Veinte » Sun Mar 09, 2014 2:08 am

At the back end of the 90s classic and X had plot elements building up that could have set the stage for for a tied-in epic climax. In tone, MM7 and 8 had that colorful and cartoonish flair mixed with serious dramatic moments and some very high stakes. Mega Man X for all its heightened drama still had this layer of irreverence. Our hero was still fighting enemies like buzzsaw flamingos and rabbits with laser ears and dinosaurs... they just dropped a lot of the big googly eyes. So in a lot of ways it still felt like the same world, just grown up a little bit. The progression from one to the other felt natural then. The calamitous direction of the X series following X4 and the nostalgic regression of the classic series over a decade of time is making them seem farther apart now.

I certainly would not oppose any plot elements introduced by Xover, however I've not heard much of anything specifically related to the interim.


Depends on what one considers relevant, and a lot of it is word-of-god type stuff from the artists and director but I think it has some interesting implications. From their perspective the heroes come from the a time period between classic and Light's development of X. Kalinka is 14 at the start of the game making it about 5 years after Rockman 4, but your character had been in stasis for about a year and other OVERs already populate the crossover world so the start of the crossover crisis would have been at least a year before that. But with the nature of the game it's hard to say if crossover time is equal to real time.

OVER-1 is pretty much Cossack's magnum opus robot design, though truly co-developed by Light and Cossack with Light contributing to the brain work and Cossack the body design. The brain is like a prototype version of X's but less refined and prone to overheat, so Cossack designed the body carefully for heat distribution. OVER's armor was inspired by Russian nesting dolls with customized layers that could be clipped on over his base form. Light improved upon that design for X's exchangeable armor parts system later on. Cossack keeps designing armors until he disappears mysteriously, possibly abducted by the bad guys or in hiding from them. He might still even be making them as the game is ongoing. Perhaps by the end of the game he'll be found, but if the Cossacks stay in the crossover world then that could be why Light can't entrust his X project to them. All in all, small but interesting contributions to the progression of the timeline, if its loose story structure is to be believed.
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Re: Bridging the gap. The Classic to X interim. What do we k

Postby LBD_Nytetrayn » Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:13 am

Huh, never knew X was such a hothead.

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Re: Bridging the gap. The Classic to X interim. What do we k

Postby Acrosurge » Sun Mar 09, 2014 2:29 pm

Zan wrote:Between defeat and victory in a hypothetical battle of Zero against Rockman, both sides can be argued. Such is the nature of using our imagination: it all depends on how we draft up the scenario. In this case, I feel the outcome is more a matter of taste and personal preference than anything.

That said: would you prefer to tackle such a story from a classic-series or from an X-series perspective? Or rather, any story told exactly in the middle of the series gap, no matter the subject, what style and atmosphere should it adhere to? When and how does the happy go lucky turn grimdark? Is it a gradual progression or a sudden shift?
I don't prefer grimdark. I don't mind having some heavier themes in the Classic series (in my opinion, Flynn has done a stellar job of integrating them; Blues's backstory, for example), but these should always be a temporary eclipse on the backdrop of a sun of hope and optimism.

If such a story were adapted either into the comic or the games, I think it would be most powerfully told from the Classic series perspective. My preference would be that Zero (what we might term Maverick Zero, and certainly not his later, heroic Hunter personality), activated prematurely, would represent an ultimate threat to the Classic world. Zero would be a true god of destruction bent on the indiscriminate annihilation of humans and robots. This would be the threat that pushes Mega Man and all of his allies, perhaps Wily, Bass, and even Duo to their very limits, to the edge of destruction.

Duo could be particularly interesting, since he is in a class above the Classic cast, but is equipped with the perception to see that even though Zero is capable of unlimited destruction, he isn't pure evil and has the potential to embrace another destiny, and that will be needed to prevent the apocalypses of the future. This would be an excellent source of conflict for Duo as he uses his considerable might in a hypothetical battle against Maverick Zero.

Picture the Gigamix Stardroids scenario with Zero there instead of Sunstar and you have what I might favor as the ultimate climax of all of Mega Man's battles. But this eclipse would pass. Mega Man and his friends would prevail, though perhaps at a cost (some heroes might be lost, and villains redeemed by their sacrifice), and Zero would be sealed. I envision a near apocalypse greater than the events of MMVgb or Superadventure Rockman, but not an actual apocalypse that kills the entire Classic cast. And I have to say that I don't favor Mega Man himself permanently dying in such a scenario. His kind of hope never dies.

I hope that is specific enough to express my tastes while remaining somewhat consistent with the lore and still opaque enough to avoid stepping on any ideas Flynn may have brewing for the future of the comic.
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Re: Bridging the gap. The Classic to X interim. What do we k

Postby Zan » Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:14 pm

Funny you should make the Gigamix parallel. I figured the same thing.

Also, if Zero in his potential rampage actually defies Wily's orders, then the other Wily Numbers may even come to Rockman's aid. This in turn serves to explain Wily's choice of absolute control by means of the Sigma Virus later on.
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Re: Bridging the gap. The Classic to X interim. What do we k

Postby BlueBlur62391 » Sun Mar 09, 2014 5:22 pm

For those who don't want to think about Rock dying, let's say that he received the same fate as Fry.

(Contains slight suggestive reference)
Spoiler: show
Without the nasty-pasty thing, of course.
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Re: Bridging the gap. The Classic to X interim. What do we k

Postby Acrosurge » Sun Mar 09, 2014 6:48 pm

Zan wrote:Also, if Zero in his potential rampage actually defies Wily's orders, then the other Wily Numbers may even come to Rockman's aid.
Honestly, this is what I want to see. Wily Numbers and Light Numbers, Wily and Light working alongside each other against the greatest threat the Mega Man Universe has yet seen.

Zan wrote:This in turn serves to explain Wily's choice of absolute control by means of the Sigma Virus later on.
And it serves to solidify in Light's mind the threat potentially present in his own last son, X and the necessity of his physical and moral testing.
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Re: Bridging the gap. The Classic to X interim. What do we k

Postby LBD_Nytetrayn » Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:11 am

I wonder if Wily's Zero and World 2 futures are really reconcilable.

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