CBR has new images and details about #34.

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Re: CBR has new images and details about #34.

Postby LBD_Nytetrayn » Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:24 pm

Thought "Maverick Virus" was in there somewhere, but maybe not.

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Re: CBR has new images and details about #34.

Postby Penguin God » Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:31 pm

Oakie620 wrote:
Penguin God wrote:Sigma was infected with the Maverick Virus by Zero. Because nobody knew this at the beginning, everybody attributed the virus to Sigma. There were Mavericks before the virus (as before the virus it basically just meant "dangerous criminal") but he is the one to introduce the Maverick Virus to the world.


That's mostly correct, but the aforementioned timeline throws a wrench on the notion of there being Mavericks before the virus:

    1XX years ago The Sigma Virus outbreak

    A subspecies of the terrible computer virus from long ago is generated, and begins driving robots mad locally. The human leadership acknowledges these infected robots as Mavericks, and orders them to be disposed of. The source was found to be an unknown computer virus that had prevailed over 100 years ago emerging from the capsule Zero slumbered in. Later, this virus was named the Sigma Virus, after the Reploid "Sigma" who led a revolt against the human leadership.

That's... basically what I said though. They acknowledge the infected robots as Mavericks, which before then were just any dangerous criminal Reploids. The Maverick Virus (aka the Sigma Virus/Zero Virus) is a virus than makes robots insane and go Maverick. Why would there even be Maverick Hunters before Mavericks existed?
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Re: CBR has new images and details about #34.

Postby LBD_Nytetrayn » Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:28 pm

Oakie620 wrote:I see the notion of Sigma being the first Reploid has been addressed, and I understand the reasoning so I won't chime in on the subject. Zan asked me to relay his thoughts on the matter, though:

Zan wrote:The info about Sigma being the first Reploid comes from one obscure Cyber Mission source (Rockman X Cyber Mission Complete Strategy Guide): "If you exclude X and Zero as Repliroids, Sigma, whom Dr. Cain created was the first Repliroid."

It does fit well with the phrase "unlimited strength and intelligence" from the journal, but less so with "latest circuitry designs". First Reploid or not, Sigma is also the strongest Repliroid in history, and that's what matters most.


Had to approve this in the comments over on TMMN earlier, and I figured I'd bring it over here for you to verify/comment on:

In any case, he or rather the writer needs to know that the first reploid ever made, was actually Sigma. http://megaman.wikia.com/wiki/...
The reploid depicted here, must be retconed into Sigma as soon as possible.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mega Man Xtreme Walk-trough (ロックマン X サイバーミッション 完全攻略 ガイド, Rokkuman X Saibaa Misshon Kanzen Kouryaku Gaido) According to this guide released by Haoh Magazine (Haoh Game Special 185), if you exclude X and Zero as Repliroids, Sigma, whom Dr. Cain created, was the first Repliroid.

Compendium of Rockman X

Using the data from the blue robot called X as his base, Dr. Cain
manufactures Sigma. A robot born with the highest abilities, without
comparison from all prior robots. The general term for that robot became
known as "repliroid."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This means that Sigma here, will undergo a modification, which doesn't only make him as advanced as possible, but change his exterior to exactly the appearance we love and fear.
Also before I forget to tell, him being the first reploid, makes him a close expy of Neo Human Casshern's Braiking Boss.
Both were the first of their kind and both rebelled against humanity.


I think he might be getting his hopes up a little there on that last part, given Ian is following the manual for this (though one supposes he could be modified into Sigma), but I was curious if you'd like to double-check the Compendium of Rockman X for that tidbit as well.

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Re: CBR has new images and details about #34.

Postby Oakie620 » Mon Feb 17, 2014 5:20 am

From what I know, marshmallow man translated the excerpt from Compendium of Rockman X. I haven't seen any recent activity from him, but from what I recall, his translations are fairly reliable.

That said, I agree with Zan in that it doesn't matter whether Sigma is the first Reploid or not. He is still Dr. Cain's masterpiece, with the greatest strength and intelligence. If being the first Reploid was such an important detail to the story, I imagine Capcom would have spoken up before the story was even drawn (assuming they also review and approve the scripts).

I can go on to speculate that Sigma might have been established as the first Reploid as an afterthought, to clear up this small mystery in the lore without needing to create an entirely new character. But again, this is just guessing.

My only issue with the comic's take is how the first Reploid is a blatant knock-off of the brown Hunter from X5. I don't have a personal vision of what a non-Sigma prototype could look like, but I was hoping it wouldn't be a recycled design.

LBD_Nytetrayn wrote:Thought "Maverick Virus" was in there somewhere, but maybe not.

--LBD "Nytetrayn"


I've seen the name used sparsely in pre-X3 sources, though the virus's existence only became public knowledge in X3. MMXOCW implies that Doppler was the one who coined the name "Sigma Virus", so while the virus itself might have changed over the course of the series, it has always been known as the Sigma Virus in the setting.

Penguin God wrote:That's... basically what I said though. They acknowledge the infected robots as Mavericks, which before then were just any dangerous criminal Reploids. The Maverick Virus (aka the Sigma Virus/Zero Virus) is a virus than makes robots insane and go Maverick. Why would there even be Maverick Hunters before Mavericks existed?


Your previous post infers that the virus was not a factor in the first Maverick outbreaks, which could have been the case if the source I referred to didn't state otherwise.
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Re: CBR has new images and details about #34.

Postby LBD_Nytetrayn » Mon Feb 17, 2014 6:02 am

Oakie620 wrote:
LBD_Nytetrayn wrote:Thought "Maverick Virus" was in there somewhere, but maybe not.

--LBD "Nytetrayn"


I've seen the name used sparsely in pre-X3 sources, though the virus's existence only became public knowledge in X3. MMXOCW implies that Doppler was the one who coined the name "Sigma Virus", so while the virus itself might have changed over the course of the series, it has always been known as the Sigma Virus in the setting.


I just checked, and I guess it might be an American thing, as it was used in the X3 manual to describe what Doppler's Neuro-Computer was affecting.

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Re: CBR has new images and details about #34.

Postby Zack_GLC » Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:59 am

Soooo....I'm excited for this issue. When's it out again? In comic shops I mean.
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Re: CBR has new images and details about #34.

Postby BlueBlur62391 » Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:16 am

Zack_GLC wrote:Soooo....I'm excited for this issue. When's it out again? In comic shops I mean.
Wednesday.
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Re: CBR has new images and details about #34.

Postby Zack_GLC » Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:13 pm

BillNoSpoilers wrote:
Zack_GLC wrote:Soooo....I'm excited for this issue. When's it out again? In comic shops I mean.
Wednesday.

Hmm my comic shop said it wasn't out this Wednesday. Maybe it'll be the week after for them then. Thanks.
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Re: CBR has new images and details about #34.

Postby BlueBlur62391 » Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:01 pm

Just two more days. 48 hours. 2880 minutes. 172800 seconds.

Just that long until a sweet book of 25 glorious pages.
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Re: CBR has new images and details about #34.

Postby El Veinte » Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:54 am

All these teased images show some interesting ideas. I like Dr. Cain having his own Ball De Voux team. They don't seem like they'd be good excavators, but may be well-suited as mobile surveying equipment. From the variant cover for #34 I was expecting a "horizontal bed" style of capsule similar to Maverick Hunter X or the X3 PSX version, only one that is actually covered with collapsed ceiling debris (both of those games show X's capsule as safe in an intact store room or bunker-type area). But the comic book day preview has X emerging from one of the vertical power-up capsules from the games instead. I hope Ian corrected or dropped the references to the capsule's dimensions. Cain's journal said 14 meters tall and 8 meters wide, but this should have actually been in feet unless X's capsule is the size of a 4 story silo. There are already some clear changes/additions to the journal, such as the joking bit about Cain's genius being wasted on archaeology, even though he had actually been in the wastelands to study paleontology and only wound up doing archaeology instead once he discovered the lab.

I'm glad the comic is referencing Cain's journal, even where the details in it don't line up with some of the other Japanese lore. In my mind it's the quintessential western opening to Mega Man X, and it's something that none of the Rockman X mangas have done before so at the same time it feels fresh.

Oakie620 wrote:I can go on to speculate that Sigma might have been established as the first Reploid as an afterthought, to clear up this small mystery in the lore without needing to create an entirely new character. But again, this is just guessing.


I've seen that suggested before, and I think you're probably right. Seems like a detail that got added along the way instead of something that was conceived from the get-go.

Mega Man Xtreme Walk-trough (ロックマン X サイバーミッション 完全攻略 ガイド, Rokkuman X Saibaa Misshon Kanzen Kouryaku Gaido) According to this guide released by Haoh Magazine (Haoh Game Special 185), if you exclude X and Zero as Repliroids, Sigma, whom Dr. Cain created, was the first Repliroid.

Compendium of Rockman X

Using the data from the blue robot called X as his base, Dr. Cain
manufactures Sigma. A robot born with the highest abilities, without
comparison from all prior robots. The general term for that robot became
known as "repliroid."


That first reference seems on the ball, except the way the book puts it is actually closer to "repliroid number one" or "the number one repliroid". Depending on the context that could take on a pretty different meaning, like "number one" as in being the best or most significant of something rather than the first of something, but I believe the context of "first" is in fact what the passage was trying to convey. It's on the bottom of page 43.

The second source I believe is wrong. Not necessarily the passage itself, but at least what it says it's from. It sounds familiar but I don't think it's from the "Compendium of Rockman X". After a quick Compendium search I didn't see a paragraph matching that or anything in general that mentions Sigma being Cain's first reploid. A page number might have been useful! I think this quote is probably misattributed. Offhand, I'd bet it's from Haoh's Rockman X6 guide, but I can't check right now.
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Re: CBR has new images and details about #34.

Postby Penguin God » Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:48 pm

Oakie620 wrote:
Penguin God wrote:That's... basically what I said though. They acknowledge the infected robots as Mavericks, which before then were just any dangerous criminal Reploids. The Maverick Virus (aka the Sigma Virus/Zero Virus) is a virus than makes robots insane and go Maverick. Why would there even be Maverick Hunters before Mavericks existed?


Your previous post infers that the virus was not a factor in the first Maverick outbreaks, which could have been the case if the source I referred to didn't state otherwise.

Wait but... how? The Maverick Virus doesn't even exist outside of Wily's lab until after the Maverick Hunters are formed. How could the first outbreaks be caused by it?
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Re: CBR has new images and details about #34.

Postby El Veinte » Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:44 pm

According to that Rockman Zero Collection timeline virus was leaking out of Zero's capsule and infecting reploids in the surrounding area. They didn't put it together until later, so at the time they probably didn't have any means of identifying the virus in those first cases, only that something in the reploid's brain went wrong. I imagine Cain probably still had reploids and mechaniloids surveying the wastelands around the remains of Light's lab to seek out other treasures from the past, and those workers wound up being the first infected. Then the Hunters were formed to stop any potential incidents. Sometime after Zero was found, the government made it forbidden to enter that entire area.
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Re: CBR has new images and details about #34.

Postby LBD_Nytetrayn » Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:44 am

Just throwing in that I've never liked the idea that Mavericks are purely the results of viral shenanigans. But when I began the series, it seemed like it had this neat sort of X-Men like vibe where humans had created these machines that are basically their mental equals, yet some were treated as inferiors, while others-- perhaps as a result-- believed them to be superior to mankind, and so they rose up as Mavericks under Sigma (basically reploid Magneto) to take their rightful place as the dominant species while kicking humanity to the curb.

Having everything down to the very first Maverick basically being the result of a slow-burning Wily plot from 100 years ago kind of takes the wind out of it all, and makes reploids feel almost too perfect-- as though the idea is that if it weren't for the virus, they'd all be angels or something.

That's further trampled upon when you have guys like Lumine coming out and saying "oh, we can be Maverick by choice" like it's some sort of new concept, when the general belief (if not the original conceit) was that this is what Mavericks were in the first place.

Sigh. I still love the series, but looking back at this stuff in such a way makes me wonder why. Fingers crossed that whatever Ian does with it can reignite that flame.

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Re: CBR has new images and details about #34.

Postby Tahtorak » Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:01 am

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Re: CBR has new images and details about #34.

Postby El Veinte » Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:11 am

Even when it's generalized about how many maverick incidents are the virus' fault, we know from the character bios and such that a lot of the bosses had their own reasons for participating. The virus doesn't seem to be fully weaponized until X2, so most of those first two rebellion members took part as result of their own choices and circumstances. Then X4, X8 and Command Mission were all pretty virus-free plots. So it's roughly equal parts. Granted, the world may never have gotten so bad if the virus wasn't around, and perhaps truly massive rebellions would require some large catalyst like the virus for them to take place at all, since the vast majority of reploids like the majority of human beings probably seek to be law abiding and decent within the confines of society and general morality. Still, it isn't as though the virus was the cause of all wrongdoing. I wouldn't mind seeing some side stories about everyday reploids stuck in hard moral situations, making bad choices for selfish or emotional reasons, or even something like a reploid black market. Reploid criminal organizations with characters like Cedar and Aluce who perhaps don't care about issues of human subservience vs reploid superiority or overturning society, they just want to be rich and powerful and don't care about dodging the law to do it.

Speaking of X-Men, that universe isn't without its own mind control incidents and body-altering viruses. There's room for both kinds of stories I think.
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