Classic and X Bosses - Personal Tales?

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Classic and X Bosses - Personal Tales?

Postby YamiNetto » Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:10 am

This would probably come more into play as Archie releases the X storyline, but wouldn't you think that as free-thinkers, the depth of Light/Wilybots/Mavericks/Maverick Hunters and their exposure to life and their histories would give the franchise a depth not thoroughly explored in the games?

After all, characters that have more about them than a one-dimensional boss fight in A SINGLE GAME are bound to be more interesting.

Especially in X, which has a different character dynamic than Classic did (Reploids/Robots were bound to made and programmed by more people than just Light, Wily and Cossack after X number of years...), such as being integrated in society in a fashion akin to how the real world had adopted certain things into everyday over time (could be politics, traditions, technology, etc.)

Some huge examples were, for me, from reading the Rockman X manga by Iwamoto Yoshishiro; they weren't exactly Inafune/CAPCOM canon, per se, but it gave a new angle on characters we wouldn't normally consider.

X was very fragile when it came to war and fighting and cried a lot. (obviously Yoshishiro's take on Light's intentions) Zero was practically the cool-headed big man on campus and was fairly popular among the Hunters, since virtually a good number of them revered him in some way. Storm Eagle was in a relationship and was influenced by his lover's death come the rebellion (in part). Armored Armadillo was extremely honor-bound to the point of being scarred by Sigma for letting X and Zero escape the forest Sting Chameleon took over, and taking the killing blow for X from Vile's attack on the mines.

Flame Stag was very prideful and became Maverick when X humiliated him in a training exercise. Overdrive Ostrich practically revered Eagle and was torn (and manipulated by Sigma) after Eagle's death and was vengeful (then distraught when Violen revealed he was just being used). Wire Sponge was practically like a young child who was confused and fragile in his innocence (later revealed to be in cahoots with Dr. Cain to get X back in the right mind after Zero's death in the X1 manga)

Blast Hornet greatly admired Zero and even after being controlled by Doppler, his 'Maverick behavior' was stemmed from that admiration. Blizzard Buffalo was a kindhearted artist who was good with children. Neon Tiger greatly cared for nature and the preservation of the tiger reserve he guarded, which was warped by Doppler. Volt Catfish wanted to make people laugh and be a star.

Even some of the games hinted at having a background. In X5, The Skiver hinted at having an unexplored relationship with Iris through Colonel (who he admired). Blizzard Wolfang had a guilt/debt-like complex that he cost Gate and his own allies in an accident and wanted to make amends. Even Flame Hyenard (who was annoying due to a program bug from an accident, as hinted in the bio and game) did not like to feel pain and may have been scared of fighting because of it (more prevalent in the Japanese version).

So should Archie explore this with Classic or X deeper, what do you think will become of the series and what you think would be interesting about it?
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Re: Classic and X Bosses - Personal Tales?

Postby LBD_Nytetrayn » Mon Dec 16, 2013 5:03 am

Classic has some of that. To go by your Skiver example, Guts Man and Stone Man are supposed to be pals, though we never really get to see that in any of the games.

But one word you mentioned is something I'd like to see explored: Programmed. One has to wonder what it's like when a Reploid comes online. Unlike the Robot Masters, whose morality was basically dictated by programming, Reploids are supposed to be able to think, feel, and make their own decisions. At the same time, one has to suppose there must be some level of programming in there: Speech, skills, maybe some other sorts of general knowledge. But how much? What degree of learning takes place?

One would assume they come off the line that way, but then you look at the existence of Reploid children, and start to wonder just what sort of life cycle these beings go through. They don't age as humans do-- not until much later, at any rate-- so what is the deal with Reploid children, then? It seems unlikely they learn and grow the same way as humans.

So much we don't know, and so much Capcom has left untouched. I'd always hoped a MMX RPG would give us answers to that world, but instead, it only presents new questions (though MMZ and others helped that along).

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Re: Classic and X Bosses - Personal Tales?

Postby ReifuTD » Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:36 am

LBD_Nytetrayn wrote:Classic has some of that. To go by your Skiver example, Guts Man and Stone Man are supposed to be pals, though we never really get to see that in any of the games.

This is the reason why I want to see the Robot Museum as cannon in the comics. Other wise how the heck can Guts and Stone Man suppose interact since Stone man was made by Wily.
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Re: Classic and X Bosses - Personal Tales?

Postby Blaster » Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:25 am

Programming and how it works is something I definitely want to see explored more. A lot of Reploids and Robot Masters end up developing quirks that I'm sure puzzles even their own creator.

ReifuTD wrote:
LBD_Nytetrayn wrote:Classic has some of that. To go by your Skiver example, Guts Man and Stone Man are supposed to be pals, though we never really get to see that in any of the games.

This is the reason why I want to see the Robot Museum as cannon in the comics. Other wise how the heck can Guts and Stone Man suppose interact since Stone man was made by Wily.

I think you're limiting yourself. A lot could happen!
Spoiler: show
They could be forced to work together, maybe they meet before MM5 takes place, who knows. Maybe they both go to the same oil bar, and after an awkward night of glaring at each other they fight it out. Then they laugh it out and then agree to drink together next time and complain about their co-workers.


But yeah, I'd like to see more stuff along the same line too. Like how Snake Man likes Toad Man while the latter dislikes him. I always thought that was really funny (hearty laughter). Quick Man and Turbo Man's friendly rivalry too. Just things that have been mentioned by supplementary stuff but never really explored by canon.
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Re: Classic and X Bosses - Personal Tales?

Postby LBD_Nytetrayn » Mon Dec 16, 2013 4:49 pm

I liked how the Fifth Series worked at an amusement park and did other odd jobs to help fund Wily's work in the Megamix manga.

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Re: Classic and X Bosses - Personal Tales?

Postby LilacDownDeep » Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:46 pm

LBD_Nytetrayn wrote:One would assume they come off the line that way, but then you look at the existence of Reploid children, and start to wonder just what sort of life cycle these beings go through. They don't age as humans do-- not until much later, at any rate-- so what is the deal with Reploid children, then? It seems unlikely they learn and grow the same way as humans.


My headcanon is that they get redesigned and 'aged up' every few years. Expensive, but closer to how we visually see them. Or much later, they discovered 'self replicating nanites.' Which would explain Alia's changing hairstyles.

But that's just it: Headcanon. We don't know how Capcom deals with that stuff. As for adults coming off the line, I'd say they're pretty dull and emotionless when they start out, only starting to develop a personality when they start experiencing situations.

Since I'm more interested in the classic series, I'd like to see more spinoffs with the Robot Masters and how Archie could develop their personalities. After all, the Third Gen are all miner robots, they're probably a bit more crude than the others, (hearty laughter). And ESPECIALLY Shadow Man's backstory. And the Stardroids and where they came from (and/or make them recurring villains along with Sunstar before Sunstar explodes/joinstheTARDISteaminmycrossovercanondon'tjudgeme).
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Re: Classic and X Bosses - Personal Tales?

Postby LBD_Nytetrayn » Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:57 pm

LilacDownDeep wrote:
LBD_Nytetrayn wrote:One would assume they come off the line that way, but then you look at the existence of Reploid children, and start to wonder just what sort of life cycle these beings go through. They don't age as humans do-- not until much later, at any rate-- so what is the deal with Reploid children, then? It seems unlikely they learn and grow the same way as humans.


My headcanon is that they get redesigned and 'aged up' every few years. Expensive, but closer to how we visually see them. Or much later, they discovered 'self replicating nanites.' Which would explain Alia's changing hairstyles.


Letting it down/out doesn't work? I mean, for the rest, sure, but a hairstyle? Seems like that's overcomplicating things a tad.

But that's just it: Headcanon. We don't know how Capcom deals with that stuff. As for adults coming off the line, I'd say they're pretty dull and emotionless when they start out, only starting to develop a personality when they start experiencing situations.


Something tells me Capcom might not, either. All the same, that's why I'm saying it could be a neat thing to see in the comics, because Capcom themselves give us jack-all when it comes to world-building half the time, and most of that usually involves killing someone who was a part of it.

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Re: Classic and X Bosses - Personal Tales?

Postby YamiNetto » Wed Dec 18, 2013 1:43 am

Y'know, it's funny. According to some of the official X artbooks and stuff, for example, some Reploids have traits akin to the aging process.

Izzy Glow was a prime example. By the creators' own admission, Izzy was supposed to be 'elderly', the red stripe meant to be akin to a 'thinning line'.

Or Grizzly Slash in the Chinise X5 manga (oh boy here we go). From what I could decipher, memories of his past in a human village portrayed him as 'much younger' without the scar and giant left arm. You could tell by his scale he was slightly shorter, too. Reploid biology (if you can even call it that) deepens again.

This may also take the Viruses into effect. The viruses amplify negative impulses and ego-based synapses, similar to most human drugs (only, in this case, it's not a using circumstance). Arguably, this could tie into Maverick behavior should 'age' become a factor.

Arguably, Sting and Wire were the 'youngest' or 'most innocent' of the X1 and X2 set - Sting became a Maverick with the only hint being he had a hostage situation on his hands and had no choice (and his childish behavior in the mangas - both Yoshishiro and Irregular Hunter X may belie the fact), and Sponge was an abundance of innocent, child-like curiosity who, in the X2 manga, was scared like a young child when X nearly tried to kill him (before Cain intervened). If this was put into the equation, perhaps the viruses react to Reploids differently based on cognitive disposition.

Just to make an extreme, take someone who is described as calm and collected perhaps even sophisticated, like Eagle, Armadillo or even Colonel. I doubt even the most malignant version of a virus can just switch them from 'gentlemanly pastime ' to 'VROOM VROOM IMMA RIDE A HARLEY', or something as out there.

There's gotta be a scale. A gradient. A 0-to-10 model to go by, because while some humans have erratic emotional parameters (myself included), we can't just assume all humans have the same quirk. Same with Reploids. And cutting out all physical mumbo jumbo (human model vs. animal, flyer vs swimmer, et al) a personality is, for the argument, unique and by no means textbook.

I mean, am I crazy? Possibly. But that doesn't mean I'm an open-and shut-case. No one is, human, Reploid or otherwise; that's the kind of hubris that sparked the Maverick Rebellions in the first place.
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Re: Classic and X Bosses - Personal Tales?

Postby LilacDownDeep » Thu Dec 19, 2013 10:28 am

Alia's hairstyle is weird. Then again, I may be overthinking. Hair growth is nothing compared to what YamiNetto had said. And no you're not crazy it is legit.

The whole 'Maverick Virus turns you crazy' and later reploids 'turning maverick at will' seemed so incredibly silly. I liked the concept of mavericks being 'advanced AIs who were breaking the law and turned crazy through some psychological means.' Or during the wars, having no choice if what Sting Chameleon's is true.

I think there was a list somewhere stating which reploids who were actually infected got killed and the list was actually pretty small (I mean, look at X4 where the entire Repliforce were considered Mavericks because Colonel said "No" thanks to Dragoon), and how many more got away with it…? That's Fridge Horror right there. If there was a Reploid who could 'imitate' Sociopathy…

Note that the Repliforce thing could be blown out of proportion for me because I'm not THAT much of an expert on the X series.
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Re: Classic and X Bosses - Personal Tales?

Postby LBD_Nytetrayn » Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:46 pm

LilacDownDeep wrote:The whole 'Maverick Virus turns you crazy' and later reploids 'turning maverick at will' seemed so incredibly silly. I liked the concept of mavericks being 'advanced AIs who were breaking the law and turned crazy through some psychological means.' Or during the wars, having no choice if what Sting Chameleon's is true.


The whole "at will" thing was some sort of rubbish anyway. I imagine they meant it in some sort of new way, but the fact is that the Hunters were established before the virus was even active.

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Re: Classic and X Bosses - Personal Tales?

Postby YamiNetto » Thu Dec 19, 2013 5:23 pm

LilacDownDeep wrote: I think there was a list somewhere stating which reploids who were actually infected got killed and the list was actually pretty small (I mean, look at X4 where the entire Repliforce were considered Mavericks because Colonel said "No" thanks to Dragoon), and how many more got away with it…? That's Fridge Horror right there. If there was a Reploid who could 'imitate' Sociopathy…

Note that the Repliforce thing could be blown out of proportion for me because I'm not THAT much of an expert on the X series.


Amen to that. All Colonel did was say that he would not drop his weapon on account of being an honorable soldier, not exhibiting behavior of revolt or intent to harm.

Out of all the X4 mammal bosses, Frost Walrus struck me as the most likely to be anywhere NEAR Maverick. I say this because according to his released bio, he was a Maverick Hunter who sought asylum in Repliforce when his violence streak in Maverick Hunting got him in trouble. In the X4 manga (from what I could translate, since I could read SOME of it, it stemmed from being prone to episodes of boredom and needed stimuli to make his life interesting. His use of some childish Japanese onomonopea and 'slurred speech' paint him as laid back somewhat, despite his cruel methods of 'fun'. I see him kinda as the kind of Reploid who would be a fun drunk, god forbid. Strangely, I see that in Slash Beast, too.

Speaking of, the other Repliforce bosses do display some traits that could be mistaken as Maverick by the ignorant (which was kinda way X4 happened in hindsight). Slash seems very duitful and protective, and perhaps even obsessive (I mean, he RAN onto the train for the boss fight, which takes serious drive to pull that kind of stunt).

He strikes me as the joker of the bigger brass, or at least more inclined to snarky remarks (Excluding Colonel, General and Iris, Web Spider is the only one who seems closer to that, as Storm Owl and Stingray appear as so duty-bound they're stuck up, Dragoon Peacock and Mushroom aren't Repliforce and Walrus just seems kinda slow-witted or too brutish to have a sharp tongue.)

Owl strikes me as the extremely loyal type, but also seems to be very attached to order and discipline; he might not take unprecendented events well. Spider seems sly and sneaky, but reliable. He's probably like the 'noble shadow' of the Repliforce, one that enacts the will of the higher-ups while keeping 'those in the light' looking innocent and uninvolved in questionable affairs.

Stingray, to me, seems young, driven and enthusiastic, but is perhaps probably one who might get in over his head at times. Similarly I se the Skiver similar, but probably more reserved and maybe has some social issues. (He has an 'unexplored relationship' with Iris, and by extension, Zero and Colonel. You have no idea how fun it is coming up with fanart ideas invoving these four, like a passive-agressive love triangle and Colonel having a protective older brother complex.)

I guess we can continue the age debate by saying Skiver, Stingray, Iris, Zero, X, Alia, and so forth are in the same 'age range' - I'd say between 18 and 21-23, with Zero and Skiver being the oldest, followed by Z, Alia, Iris and Stingray. Axl strikes me as a year or two younger than that, like 16. Same with Gungaroo and Hyenard, as they give off this feeling of them being the youngest in Red Alert (perhaps in the order of Gungaroo, Axl (both 16-ish), Hyenard (17-18), which seems logical).

This all being said, this is just 'intellectual' headcanon.
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Re: Classic and X Bosses - Personal Tales?

Postby SurrealBrain » Thu Dec 19, 2013 9:47 pm

I'd like to see Archie explore this stuff, but preferrably with its own spin on things.
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Re: Classic and X Bosses - Personal Tales?

Postby El Veinte » Fri Dec 20, 2013 12:26 am

LBD_Nytetrayn wrote:I liked how the Fifth Series worked at an amusement park and did other odd jobs to help fund Wily's work in the Megamix manga.


That was amusing, and random and nonsensical. With Crystalman originally purposed for crystals manufacturing for money, him choosing a low-paying job at an amusement park seems a huge waste of talent. Some of the other robots, even more so. Maybe there aren't a lot of job opportunities out there for reformed robots, but there's got to be something better than that. Fire your headhunter, bros. Get on LinkedIn or something.

LilacDownDeep wrote:My headcanon is that they get redesigned and 'aged up' every few years.


Don't remember what it was I was watching (I watch a lot of stuff with robots) but there was this family of robots and the adults would get packages in the mail containing new bigger parts for the kids once they got to certain ages. So for example they started off small and every so often got replacement parts the parents would switch out, like from toddler to child to teenager and they would "grow" to adulthood that way. Was it the movie Robots? I feel like it was western. Maybe there was more than one show like that.

Since reploids have "DNA programs" I would love to see reploid couples create their own children by mixing the DNA of the parents to create unique but genuinely related offspring. Though I supose mass-produced reploids having mass-produced DNA would lead to so many mass-produced children types around, which is what we tend to see in the games.

Actually, bringing up the issue of mass-produced versus uniquely crafted reploids as a social reploid caste system might be interesting to expand upon as well.

YamiNetto wrote:The viruses amplify negative impulses and ego-based synapses, similar to most human drugs (only, in this case, it's not a using circumstance). Arguably, this could tie into Maverick behavior should 'age' become a factor.


I'd like to see a more clear approach to viruses in general. Some seem to corrupt the reploid's mind and personality, some send a reploid into a berserk rage, some seem to put them in a trance state, controlled as though hypnotized. Gate's Nightmare virus and the Dark Elf can also change a reploid's body as well as its mind. There doesn't seem to be a limit to what a virus can do, only to what a reploid can take as far as changes go (as we are told some outright die as a result). I would like to see more expounding on various virus strains, their gradual development and what each can do.

LBD_Nytetrayn wrote:The whole "at will" thing was some sort of rubbish anyway. I imagine they meant it in some sort of new way, but the fact is that the Hunters were established before the virus was even active.


Zero Collection website's timeline implicated that the virus spread into the world and caused some of the first irregulars before the Hunters were formed. Doesn't seem like that was always the story, but there you have it. In essence, blaming viruses or malfunctions for causing robots to do bad things is a bit less interesting than if the robot chooses to do bad things because its moral philosophy stands at odds. I think that's all "at will" was getting at. They were immune to viruses, so their choice to act as mavericks was the result of their own reason alone. Because the series is so bogged down with viruses by that point, it is trying to go back to basics to be interesting again.

YamiNetto wrote:All Colonel did was say that he would not drop his weapon on account of being an honorable soldier, not exhibiting behavior of revolt or intent to harm.


The X4 backstory relates that relationships between the Hunters and Repliforce were already strained before the start of the game, so what we saw was the spark in the gunpowder barrel. But he wasn't just refusing to disarm (which itself is a silly act with these robots, especially when X does it in Day of Sigma and literally drops his arm on the floor), Colonel was a suspect refusing to cooperate with an investigation and fleeing the scene. Running from the cops is always a risky move, but he might have believed that even had he cooperated they still would have pinned the Sky Lagoon incident on Repliforce.

This all being said, this is just 'intellectual' headcanon.


We're in a weird place now with the series and lore. Certainly the canon belongs to Capcom, but who really speaks for Capcom on the matter? For example, the artist for Rockman Xover has referred to his own ideas as his own headcanon, rather than official story settings, and he's a Capcom employee who makes undeniable contributions to the game. I wonder whose permission he'd need to make his ideas canon. The kids who grew up playing Mega Man have inherited the franchise. Maybe nobody's really at the reigns anymore, and everything's just various headcanons.
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Re: Classic and X Bosses - Personal Tales?

Postby LBD_Nytetrayn » Fri Dec 20, 2013 4:23 am

YamiNetto wrote:I guess we can continue the age debate by saying Skiver, Stingray, Iris, Zero, X, Alia, and so forth are in the same 'age range' - I'd say between 18 and 21-23, with Zero and Skiver being the oldest, followed by Z, Alia, Iris and Stingray. Axl strikes me as a year or two younger than that, like 16. Same with Gungaroo and Hyenard, as they give off this feeling of them being the youngest in Red Alert (perhaps in the order of Gungaroo, Axl (both 16-ish), Hyenard (17-18), which seems logical).


At the outset of the series, or at least when he was found, X had the mental state of a 14-year old with, if memory serves, the ability to mature.

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Re: Classic and X Bosses - Personal Tales?

Postby ReifuTD » Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:02 am

El Veinte wrote:
Since reploids have "DNA programs" I would love to see reploid couples create their own children by mixing the DNA of the parents to create unique but genuinely related offspring. Though I supose mass-produced reploids having mass-produced DNA would lead to so many mass-produced children types around, which is what we tend to see in the games.


I seem to remeber something like that happening in the first Ghost in the Shell movie. Basicllay the childern where AI programs wondering the internet. Honestly I believe if you want to make a unique robot with human intelligence you have to 1) Make a robot grow physically as the mind grows. Or 2) Grow the mind in a virtual reality and put the mind in a real body when they are ready. I think the second way helps weed out undisable programs.
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