Plot Holes: Mega Man

Forum devoted to Mega Man by Archie Comics.

Re: Plot Holes: Mega Man

Postby ReifuTD » Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:36 pm

Mavrickindigo wrote:Robot Masters: Programmed to emulate free will, but don't actually have it. Sheep Man was apparently programmed to be a slacker who hops between jobs and is programmed to figure out the best job that he is good for.


About Sheep Man, The Light robots seem to be the same way doing what ever job they are best suited or needs the be done at the time. Maybe programing a robot with a set job or task makes it harder for them to change jobs or how that job is performed. Every time you want to change something you got the send the robot back to get programed. By not programing a set task you can verberly tell the robot what to do with out them blowing a fuse in a logic loop. I mean you seen those movies where some guy is yelling at a robot not to do something and the robot keeps screwing up.
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Re: Plot Holes: Mega Man

Postby Mavrickindigo » Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:43 pm

ReifuTD wrote:
Mavrickindigo wrote:Robot Masters: Programmed to emulate free will, but don't actually have it. Sheep Man was apparently programmed to be a slacker who hops between jobs and is programmed to figure out the best job that he is good for.


About Sheep Man, The Light robots seem to be the same way doing what ever job they are best suited or needs the be done at the time. Maybe programing a robot with a set job or task makes it harder for them to change jobs or how that job is performed. Every time you want to change something you got the send the robot back to get programed. By not programing a set task you can verberly tell the robot what to do with out them blowing a fuse in a logic loop. I mean you seen those movies where some guy is yelling at a robot not to do something and the robot keeps screwing up.

No one told Sheep Man what to do. His Bio mentions that he frequently gets bored of his job and gets a new one.

This means that either a.) He has free will, and Reploids are bullcrap or b.) Someone programmed him to be a slacker for giggles.
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Re: Plot Holes: Mega Man

Postby LilacDownDeep » Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:21 pm

The whole difference between Reploids and Robot Masters is so stupid, I'm really hoping Ian actually makes a better and more solid difference between them.
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Re: Plot Holes: Mega Man

Postby DBlack » Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:49 pm

LilacDownDeep wrote:The whole difference between Reploids and Robot Masters is so stupid, I'm really hoping Ian actually makes a better and more solid difference between them.


This. I like to think of the Robot Masters advancing enough through their computational skills and heuristics that their behaviour is so close to free will as to make the distinction essentially meaningless. It makes for more interesting story telling in the Classic series; especially when their desires and needs conflict with that programming, like with the Emerald Spears and being frustrated at their programming limitations in "Spiritus Ex Machina".
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Re: Plot Holes: Mega Man

Postby ReifuTD » Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:53 pm

Whole concept of Free Will is debatable to begain with and I'm not talking about anything devine. Whats debatable about it is that everything we do is a composite our past experince that came befor it. Then theres the basic needs like eat, sleep and sex that short of works like the Laws of Robotics in one form or another.
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Re: Plot Holes: Mega Man

Postby LilacDownDeep » Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:33 pm

DBlack wrote:
LilacDownDeep wrote:The whole difference between Reploids and Robot Masters is so stupid, I'm really hoping Ian actually makes a better and more solid difference between them.


This. I like to think of the Robot Masters advancing enough through their computational skills and heuristics that their behaviour is so close to free will as to make the distinction essentially meaningless. It makes for more interesting story telling in the Classic series; especially when their desires and needs conflict with that programming, like with the Emerald Spears and being frustrated at their programming limitations in "Spiritus Ex Machina".


I believe that too. We didn't upgrade from an Apple Macintosh to a Macbook Pro in a few years, or upgrade from Mac OS to Mac OS X in a few years either. It took a good 20 years of development from those clunky 80's computers to the shiny, smaller models.

Same goes for Windows and Linux I think, it's just I'm more familiar with the other PC. Though I think Windows overall design hasn't changed too much throughout the years, someone correct me if I'm wrong...
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Re: Plot Holes: Mega Man

Postby ShadowBat20 » Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:44 pm

Mavrickindigo wrote:This means that either a.) He has free will, and Reploids are bullcrap or b.) Someone programmed him to be a slacker for giggles.


And...headcanon.
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Re: Plot Holes: Mega Man

Postby LBD_Nytetrayn » Fri Sep 13, 2013 3:34 am

Mavrickindigo wrote:It's basically this

Robot Masters: Programmed to emulate free will, but don't actually have it. Sheep Man was apparently programmed to be a slacker who hops between jobs and is programmed to figure out the best job that he is good for

Reploids: Programmed WITH free will, but is forced into castes just like everyone else in history, and if they don't do what the humans say to the letter, they get killed. Basically Humanity in the X series is into robotic racism and have a power trip spending billions of dollars to break the will of free thinking individuals instead of building toasters to toast things and that's it.


I don't think it's quite as malicious as you make it sound; I think humanity just doesn't comprehend that these robots are on the same sort of mental level as they are. Call them what you will, but they're still robots, manufactured to perform certain jobs, that's that...

As for the difference between Robot Masters and Reploids, my understanding of it has been that basically, what a Robot Master knows is what's in its programming. If you program one to think kicking puppies is a perfectly okay thing to do, then they won't question it. Let the kicking commence!

But one of the defining attributes of a Reploid, as put forth by Capcom, is the ability to determine what is right and wrong for themselves. You can tell them that kicking a puppy is perfectly okay, but odds are they would be more likely to hesitate. The whimper would make them worry about what they're doing, maybe make them reconsider. They'd see the puppy cowering in fear and say "no, this isn't right-- I can't do this."

Mega Man Powered Up seems to drive the programming part home. Most, if not all of the Robot Masters aren't being evil-- not in their own minds. Fire Man is all about justice, but he's been altered to have a different definition of what "justice" is now. Cut Man, meanwhile, thinks that it's Mega Man who has been turned to the side of evil.

--LBD "Nytetrayn"
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Re: Plot Holes: Mega Man

Postby Mavrickindigo » Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:27 am

Interesting, Nytetrayn. That kinda hits home the whole Biblical thing Mega Man X has going on. X works a lot like the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil, and when Dr. Cain uses his brain fruit programming, robotics falls from grace of its blissful days and they become as their creators. With humanity taking the form of God, it has a rather OT feel to it. "We are your creators, you our are reploids. Here are the rules you'll follow to be among us now that you think like us, or you will be cast into perdition" (in this case, scrapped by the hunters, which work as the angels of this world. This can be seen in how X is seen as an Angel in the MMZ series, both in cyber elf form and in Copy X's final form.) Also Sigma is a Fallen Angel, essentially Lucifier, taking the 1/3 of the heavenly host (the Maverick hunters) because they don't want to serve the humans, which is the very same reason Lucifer decided to leave God in "Paradise Lost." Let's not forget how Dr. Cain caused the destruction of Abel city, essentially murdering everyone there because of his "sacrifice" to "God" (his giving of Reploids to Humanity). And of course, we have stuff like Lumine being Satan, and Omega is essentially the Beast with Weil as the Antichrist.

That, or Cain wasn't very bright and didn't properly tell consumers what a reploid was.
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Re: Plot Holes: Mega Man

Postby LBD_Nytetrayn » Fri Sep 13, 2013 4:09 pm

My money would be on the latter, but the former sure is something they've run with since the beginning. I don't know whether the series was originally intended to have any Biblical reflections to it, but that sure didn't stop the manga adaptation. I wonder if that's not what influenced later installments and such...

Plus, one could probably make the argument that Light = God and X = Jesus, if you wanted to go further with it.

Sigh... I miss the days when MMX just seemed to mix the best parts of Terminator, Blade Runner, and X-Men.

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Re: Plot Holes: Mega Man

Postby Gonzo » Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:07 pm

Oftentimes I wish Capcom hadn't tried to use "free will" as the distinction between robots and Reploids; I'm sure there's other things you could use to create interesting philosophical questions (if that makes any sense) that wouldn't result in writing yourself into a corner and/or having to give Classic character massive OOC moments in a failed attempt to get that point across.

On a much more minor note, why do male Reploids have Classic-style two-tone (bifurcated?) eyes when female Reploids have actual pupils? I know that "robots = weird eyes, humans = pupils" is fanon (probably just my fanon), but lady-bots in Classic lack pupils, so what gives?

(I know the answer is likely "art style quirk", but far be it from me to NOT over-think everything)
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Re: Plot Holes: Mega Man

Postby Max1996 » Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:09 pm

Here's something I've noticed in #29 (From the looks of it, I'm the only one who noticed). So after the crossover, the damage done to Cut Man, Guts Man and Bomb Man was undone, until the EMWave came. However, in the flashback in #29, we see Cut Man and Bomb Man in their pre-crossover state (Cut Man forced into the roof and Bomb Man [pun unavoidable] disarmed). Why?
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Re: Plot Holes: Mega Man

Postby SonicSoul » Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:18 pm

Maybe it was something Mega Man did when he made his Chaos Control without a hitch.
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Re: Plot Holes: Mega Man

Postby Max1996 » Fri Sep 27, 2013 2:34 pm

SonicSoul wrote:Maybe it was something Mega Man did when he made his Chaos Control without a hitch.

It's not that the Robot Masters were undamaged at the beginning of #28. What I'm saying is: How are the Robot Masters, in the flashback shown in #29, damaged in the exact same ways as in #23?
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Re: Plot Holes: Mega Man

Postby Antiyonder » Fri Sep 27, 2013 3:01 pm

Max1996 wrote:
SonicSoul wrote:Maybe it was something Mega Man did when he made his Chaos Control without a hitch.

It's not that the Robot Masters were undamaged at the beginning of #28. What I'm saying is: How are the Robot Masters, in the flashback shown in #29, damaged in the exact same ways as in #23?


Based on how this story was suppose to be told sooner (before Worlds Collide happened) and thus no Chaos Control to undo their damage, I'm guessing it might be an oversight.

But storywise, might just be Light misremembering it considering how bad things got.
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