Are Mobians gods?

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Re: Are Mobians gods?

Postby Sparky » Fri Dec 18, 2015 9:28 pm

It's really only the game characters that display extremely high level superpowers. Like Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Amy, Shadow, etc are all way more powerful than any other mobian we have seen that weren't specifically meant to be powerful.
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Re: Are Mobians gods?

Postby RaceProUK » Fri Dec 18, 2015 9:47 pm

The KKM wrote:Yeah well tough luck to the Western concept, not only was it the one I wasn't using (since I was mentioning it in the concept of Egypt), I wasn't even mentioning it in the context of the kitsune. You're diverting to irrelevant nonsense.

Tails may as well be a magic kitsune spirit fox Naruto, in the same way that for all we know Sonic has cancer and Shadow likes to play marbles in his free time- that's the realm of headcanons. If you're going in there, then what's to discuss? You're conflating your own headcanon with what's actually happening in the games, which is what Toby mentioned. He has two tails, like a kitsune has multiple tails. Nothing else in the games indicates at all he's meant to be a spirit fox. Nothing else indicates he's meant to be anything but a fox. And yes, in Japanese the word is the same, but that doesn't mean the actual entities are the same, unless you know any real life 900-year-old foxes around? He's not a kitsune (as in the spirit fox), he's a kitsune (as in the Japanese word for fox, meaning he's also a raposa, a zorro, and however you'd say fox in French).

You don't like what I'm saying, so you throw a hissy fit? Great. Top drawer discussion. Glad I hung around for it. Now if you'll excuse me, I'll go talk to people that make a point without throwing their toys out the pram.
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Re: Are Mobians gods?

Postby The KKM » Fri Dec 18, 2015 10:18 pm

You're still not presenting anything to support "Tails is an actual kitsune as in mythical Japanese spirit fox" other than "but maybe these things we don't actually see". Which again, in that case, did you know Sonic dies of lung cancer? You wouldn't know it yet because it'll strike when he's older than 15, but it totally happens!
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Re: Are Mobians gods?

Postby Uwaaii » Sat Dec 19, 2015 12:45 am

Are we talking about this in the game or the comic? To me, saying Mobians are gods are like saying Mario and any other human characters are gods because they're the only human characters in a world of mutant mushrooms, dinosaurs who can change anything into an egg by eating it, flying squids, man-eating plants, and any other enemy character that can talk and make up 90% of their world's population.

The Wikipedia can be edited by anyone, so I wouldn't believe in or cite everything that is written there as evidence. I don't know who wrote the article, but in Japan people don't always call spirit foxes "kitsune" because that's too confusing. They're more commonly called yoko or kitsune-no-yokai. They also have specific names like bake-gitsune (changeling), kyuubi(nine-tail), tenko(thousand-year old), and so on. Also their design isn't based on a genetic mutation, it was a common belief in the old days that animals split tails and gained power when they got old. It is said that the Japanese kyuubi originally came from China who had a nine-tailed nine headed animal deity. As its story was passed to other countries, it blended in with another story where one of the villain was a fox, and resulted in the creation of the nine-tailed fox replacing both the villain and spiritual deity.

As a Japanese Sonic fan, I never thought about a Kyuubi or Yoko when I saw Tails. I just thought "Oh, what a cute fox. he has two tails and can fly? that's unique." In Japanese media, characters based on yokos are either nine-tailed or one tailed with unique appearances. There are characters that don't have exactly nine tails but it's always eight, six, or more than four to be easily associated with kyuubis. Having two tails just doesn't make sense as a design (in Japan) if he's supposed to be a Yoko, since he looks like a normal fox (=not a one tail yoko) but not even close to having nine tails (=not kyuubi). Yes there are categories in between but that's a very minor knowledge that only people who research it would know and barely used. Of course in the west they're really sensitive to foreign culture and even the most minor detail so I understand their assumption that having more than one tail=KITSUNE or whatever. But in a world where a hedgehog is blue with a few giant spines that can run fast and an echidna is red with dreads to fly is considered normal yet a fox with two tail get bullied, it's more reasonable to think he was influenced by a yoko idea-wise but just a mutation story-wise.

Now, if it Tails was a nekomata (a cat yokai), it would totally make sense because they're all either split tailed or actually have two tails.
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Re: Are Mobians gods?

Postby RaceProUK » Sat Dec 19, 2015 8:27 am

The KKM wrote:You're still not presenting anything to support "Tails is an actual kitsune as in mythical Japanese spirit fox" other than "but maybe these things we don't actually see".
I found abilities he has that could be considered magic powers, which is what you wanted to see. So I don't know why you're still being ridiculous.

Uwaaii wrote:The Wikipedia can be edited by anyone, so I wouldn't believe in or cite everything that is written there as evidence.
Which is why I'm careful about what parts I quote, and the parts I've quoted are backed up by multiple sources, all of which are provided by the article.
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Re: Are Mobians gods?

Postby Sparky » Sat Dec 19, 2015 11:49 am

On the topic of whether Tails is a kitsune or not, I'd say yes. In terms of magical abilities, in the games he has some level of Electrokinesis, to the point that that is the element associated with the Fly-Types (just like Sonic's Wind element is associated with Speed-types and Knuckles' fire is associated with the Power-types). And in Sonic Battle, one of the weapons he built is called the "Magic Hand", and considering he can make fake Chaos Emeralds and Rings, I'd say the Magic Hand really is magical.

Tails is also fast enough to keep up with Sonic and potentially beat him in races by flying, and strong enough to lift 10 tons, but I'm not sure if those would be considered 'magical abilities' to you guys.
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Re: Are Mobians gods?

Postby MetaL Overlord » Sat Dec 19, 2015 12:18 pm

Sparky wrote:On the topic of whether Tails is a kitsune or not, I'd say yes. In terms of magical abilities, in the games he has some level of Electrokinesis, to the point that that is the element associated with the Fly-Types (just like Sonic's Wind element is associated with Speed-types and Knuckles' fire is associated with the Power-types). And in Sonic Battle, one of the weapons he built is called the "Magic Hand", and considering he can make fake Chaos Emeralds and Rings, I'd say the Magic Hand really is magical.

Tails is also fast enough to keep up with Sonic and potentially beat him in races by flying, and strong enough to lift 10 tons, but I'm not sure if those would be considered 'magical abilities' to you guys.

The Magic Hand seemed actually more like one of his many Gadgets, like the Boxing Gloves or the Cannon, he uses in his Battles.
Also , were does the 10 tons Feat come from?
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Re: Are Mobians gods?

Postby FancyFool » Sat Dec 19, 2015 2:09 pm

Here I come to cause more trouble!
I'll admit, I'm one of those people who prefers to think of Tails as a "kitsune," or as Uwaaii corrected, a yoko. It just feels wrong to me to look at Tails and not think "kitsune" because he's got multiple tails and is super intelligent (Kitsune, IIRC, are immensely wise and is a major trait of theirs, outside of shape-shifting). It's like having a character that is essentially a horse with a single horn and calling it a "horned horse" when it looks very similar to a unicorn, especially if said "horned horse" character is defined by their purity, in which case, magic or no magic people, are going to think of that character as a unicorn and it feels wrong to think otherwise (that isn't to say it is wrong to think otherwise, it just feels like it's wrong). So, in the case of Tails, we got a fox character who has multi-tails (even if it's just one extra tail) and is incredibly wise, which happen to be traits of a mythological creature from a country where the creators of this character live in... Yeah, sorry, I don't see how this character CAN'T be a "kitsune." Not unless this series was sci-fi but of course plenty of fantasy elements exist within Sonic.

I also prefer to see Tails as a kitsune because it's more "believable" in a sense. I mean, if he's actually a "mutant" then not only did Tails have the extremely low chance of having a genetic abnormality, one that doesn't harm him at all and is fully functional no less, but he's also a natural super genius, given that he could fly and maintain planes when he was at least FOUR and rivals a man with the IQ of 300! That's two, extremely rare occurrences happening in one individual at once! Now, if Tails was a kitsune, him having both those traits is a bit more likely and thus believable since those traits would be natural to his "species." I also think Tails' background can still make sense if he was a kitsune. Bullied by other kids? Well, they most likely don't know about kitsune and thus only saw a "freak of nature." And even if they did know about kitsune, I'd imagine they'd still bully Tails under the belief that he's "evil" considering the reputation of kitsune. On that note, Tails' benevolent personality? Not all kitsune are mischievous or malicious tricksters; benevolent kitsune called "zenko" were thought to have existed. Tails' lack of magic? Well... (Spoilered for fan idea, not that it will ever be used)
Spoiler: show
Maybe Mobian Kitsune, and by extension Mobian versions of all mythical creatures, aren't as magical as their "feral" counterparts. For all we know, a Mobian Phoenix, for instance, don't have the ability to reincarnate upon death and are instead defined by their control of fire, so a Mobian Kitsune wouldn't have the shape-shifting and fox-fire, just the multi-tails and wisdom.


True, Tails has never been called a "kitsune" in official material and I'm never going to argue that he truly is one in the canon material. But then, I don't ever recall him being confirmed to be a "mutant" in official material either. I don't think SEGA/Sonic Team have ever given an explanation to Tails' nature and have only called him a "two-tailed fox," which can be interpreted as him being a fox with a genetic abnormality or a kitsune, much in the same way "horned horse" can be interpreted as a horse with a genetic abnormality or a unicorn. Majority of people see Tails as a mutant and rightly so. I, and many other people, on the other hand, like to see him as something more "mythical." Call me wrong all you want, this is just how I view things.
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Re: Are Mobians gods?

Postby ReifuTD » Sat Dec 19, 2015 2:36 pm

Well it looks like we do have a Mobain Dragon with the new version of Dulcy

Image

And I'm kind of wondering if Naugus and his sister counts as Mobian Troll.
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Re: Are Mobians gods?

Postby Penguin God » Sat Dec 19, 2015 2:47 pm

Considering trolls are already humanoid, I'm not sure you can "mobian" them. They're just trolls.
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Re: Are Mobians gods?

Postby ReifuTD » Sat Dec 19, 2015 3:02 pm

Penguin God wrote:Considering trolls are already humanoid, I'm not sure you can "mobian" them. They're just trolls.


Old continuity had primates so I wouldn't cross anything humanoid not being able to be a Mobian. I think the closest thing we had to being humanoid turn into a Mobian would be Moss the Sloth witch I think thing looks too far form a normal sloth.
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Re: Are Mobians gods?

Postby Meliden » Sat Dec 19, 2015 4:15 pm

Tails doesn't really have anything that alludes to him being mythical. He's ironically one of the least 'powered' characters in the franchise; he had to practice running to follow Sonic instead of it being a natural ability, his flying is a mechanical function and not magic flight (I mean, the others bar Silver aren't but aside from Cream their species naturally fly anyway), and any other skills are with high IQ and being able to build, which is basically the opposite.
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Re: Are Mobians gods?

Postby RaceProUK » Sat Dec 19, 2015 4:54 pm

Meliden wrote:his flying is a mechanical function and not magic flight
If it's purely biomechanical, how does it work?
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Re: Are Mobians gods?

Postby MetaL Overlord » Sat Dec 19, 2015 5:10 pm

RaceProUK wrote:
Meliden wrote:his flying is a mechanical function and not magic flight
If it's purely biomechanical, how does it work?

You might as well ask, how Sonics Near-Light-Speed works or Knuckles Humungous Strength
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Re: Are Mobians gods?

Postby The KKM » Sat Dec 19, 2015 8:48 pm

FancyFool wrote:True, Tails has never been called a "kitsune" in official material and I'm never going to argue that he truly is one in the canon material.


That's all that's needed. I like the kitsune connection myself, especially as both Archie and StC have connected Tails to magic before, but arguing that it's what he's actually intended to be rather than personal headcanon is where it goes too far.
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