Sonic's Taste in Human Women

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Re: Sonic's Taste in Human Women

Postby ToaArcan » Sun Dec 06, 2015 9:29 pm

Uwaaii wrote:Although the situation is totally different, I think her quote was supposed to link to Rouge's "Even if the world becomes your enemy, I'll believe in you" to Shadow. She knows Sonic well and long enough to know he wouldn't do something like that. Heck, that's why she loves Sonic in the first place.

ToaArcan wrote:Except the line is "Even if it was true... If I had to choose between the world and Sonic, I would choose Sonic". The context is Silver claiming that Sonic destroyed the world. Therefore, Amy is stating that she would stand by Sonic even if Silver's claims that he destroys the world are accurate. The only difference is that Elise is actually put in that situation, whereas Amy just states what she would do if she was.


Amy explicitly says that she doesn't believe Silver, but even if it was true and Sonic was responsible (Responsibility implies having all of one's own faculties), she would still choose him.


With regards to the whole "Madonna" thing, I think it's because Japanese standards call for female anthro animals to be a lot more humanoid, which is probably why Amy doesn't have back-quills.

That said, the "Too Japanese" thing carries a lot of weight. First time, SEGA of America says "No, that's too Japanese for American audiences". SoJ concedes, and that leads to Amy eventually being created. IIRC, she first appeared in a manga where she was a Creator's Pet so huge that she eclipsed early-2000s Sally, Scourge, and post-reboot Amy combined.

Second time, Elise happens, and the overwhelming reaction is a mass "DO NOT WANT". At which point, SEGA get the message.
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Re: Sonic's Taste in Human Women

Postby Gonzo » Sun Dec 06, 2015 10:25 pm

I think it's because Japanese standards call for female anthro animals to be a lot more humanoid

It's not just Japanese character designers that do this.

IIRC, she first appeared in a manga where she was a Creator's Pet

In that she was a main character? I'm not sure how that alone would make her case worse than the others'.
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Re: Sonic's Taste in Human Women

Postby ToaArcan » Sun Dec 06, 2015 10:52 pm

Gonzo wrote:In that she was a main character? I'm not sure how that alone would make her case worse than the others'.


I think the fact that every single character, from Tails to Charmy to Eggman was madly in love with her and sung her praises, and she constantly got away with trying to cheat on Nicky with Sonic. Yes, they were technically the same person, but they had separate personalities and identities, and were unaware of each other. I'm not fond of post-SA2 Amy in the slightest, but I'll take her over Manga-Amy any day.
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Re: Sonic's Taste in Human Women

Postby Uwaaii » Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:30 am

ToaArcan wrote:With regards to the whole "Madonna" thing, I think it's because Japanese standards call for female anthro animals to be a lot more humanoid, which is probably why Amy doesn't have back-quills.

That said, the "Too Japanese" thing carries a lot of weight. First time, SEGA of America says "No, that's too Japanese for American audiences". SoJ concedes, and that leads to Amy eventually being created. IIRC, she first appeared in a manga where she was a Creator's Pet so huge that she eclipsed early-2000s Sally, Scourge, and post-reboot Amy combined.

Second time, Elise happens, and the overwhelming reaction is a mass "DO NOT WANT". At which point, SEGA get the message.

ToaArcan wrote:
Gonzo wrote:In that she was a main character? I'm not sure how that alone would make her case worse than the others'.


I think the fact that every single character, from Tails to Charmy to Eggman was madly in love with her and sung her praises, and she constantly got away with trying to cheat on Nicky with Sonic. Yes, they were technically the same person, but they had separate personalities and identities, and were unaware of each other. I'm not fond of post-SA2 Amy in the slightest, but I'll take her over Manga-Amy any day.


I just looked up the manga and man that's a pretty old comic written in 1992. I wouldn't consider that Amy canon since its not even based on the game only using the characters, or compare it to a comic made decades later. But it looks interesting, I need to read it someday if I can.
If the wiki is correct, Nicki's cowardliness got Eimi captured or not protecting her when she needed help. Nicki's alternate personality as Sonic was the one who always saved her from those trouble, so while Eimi still loved Nicki she admired Sonic as a hero/knight on a white horse. I don't think that's considered "cheating" but you know more about the comic than me so I can't say much.

(This is Eimi/Amy for those wondering:)
Spoiler: show
Image


That reminds me, I've heard Sally from the cartoon and the old comics got more spotlight and love while abusing Sonic on multiple occasions. Was this a common trend for girl characters back in the old days?

Sally was created around 1993ish and while Eimi was similar in shape with Sonic, she is more human-looking. Her concept art shows there was an idea of making her into a human. I'm guessing SEGA of America gave a NO on the human form, but gave an OK on a chipmunk with curves. I don't know which one is worse: a sexy girl or sexy chipmunk. She is in current standard considered to have been a writer's pet too. But then she was created by the cartoon company and not SEGA so I don't know if that counts.
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Re: Sonic's Taste in Human Women

Postby Kellox » Tue Dec 08, 2015 6:39 am

Uwaaii wrote:
ToaArcan wrote:With regards to the whole "Madonna" thing, I think it's because Japanese standards call for female anthro animals to be a lot more humanoid, which is probably why Amy doesn't have back-quills.

That said, the "Too Japanese" thing carries a lot of weight. First time, SEGA of America says "No, that's too Japanese for American audiences". SoJ concedes, and that leads to Amy eventually being created. IIRC, she first appeared in a manga where she was a Creator's Pet so huge that she eclipsed early-2000s Sally, Scourge, and post-reboot Amy combined.

Second time, Elise happens, and the overwhelming reaction is a mass "DO NOT WANT". At which point, SEGA get the message.

ToaArcan wrote:
Gonzo wrote:In that she was a main character? I'm not sure how that alone would make her case worse than the others'.


I think the fact that every single character, from Tails to Charmy to Eggman was madly in love with her and sung her praises, and she constantly got away with trying to cheat on Nicky with Sonic. Yes, they were technically the same person, but they had separate personalities and identities, and were unaware of each other. I'm not fond of post-SA2 Amy in the slightest, but I'll take her over Manga-Amy any day.


I just looked up the manga and man that's a pretty old comic written in 1992. I wouldn't consider that Amy canon since its not even based on the game only using the characters, or compare it to a comic made decades later. But it looks interesting, I need to read it someday if I can.
If the wiki is correct, Nicki's cowardliness got Eimi captured or not protecting her when she needed help. Nicki's alternate personality as Sonic was the one who always saved her from those trouble, so while Eimi still loved Nicki she admired Sonic as a hero/knight on a white horse. I don't think that's considered "cheating" but you know more about the comic than me so I can't say much.

(This is Eimi/Amy for those wondering:)
Spoiler: show
Image


That reminds me, I've heard Sally from the cartoon and the old comics got more spotlight and love while abusing Sonic on multiple occasions. Was this a common trend for girl characters back in the old days?

Sally was created around 1993ish and while Eimi was similar in shape with Sonic, she is more human-looking. Her concept art shows there was an idea of making her into a human. I'm guessing SEGA of America gave a NO on the human form, but gave an OK on a chipmunk with curves. I don't know which one is worse: a sexy girl or sexy chipmunk. She is in current standard considered to have been a writer's pet too. But then she was created by the cartoon company and not SEGA so I don't know if that counts.



Um...I don't consider giving a cartoon character '' curves'' automatically makes them sexy. Giving animalantro characters curves was pretty normal, the Satam Design of Sally was pretty basic Disney friendly stuff. Manga Amy Rose suffered from that anime-trope where girl characters could get away with everything cause it was funny and she was cute and pretty. Look at anime comedies for example or anything done by Rumiko Takahishi,
Sally suffered from the western 90's Girls kick butt! trope, where it was really downplayed for female characters to be a female in distress and so they had to be cool/smart/pretty all at the same time.

Sally's still canon just no in the regards of the games. Emi (Manga Amy) is also canon just not in regards of the games. Heck BoomAmy is NOTHING Like Sega Amy Rose but she's canon in her respective spin off.
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Re: Sonic's Taste in Human Women

Postby Alset » Tue Dec 08, 2015 9:56 am

Wasn't there Test of Love in Sonic 06 where Sonic can choose between Elise and Amy? That kind proves it. Well, unless you don't count the game as canon.

Otherwise I would argue that Sonic is uninterested. And I don't mean it as asexual, just uninterested. But poor guy just can't have it, right? He's just not that type of character. People can look at Big the Cat and agree that he's happy being single and doesn't need girlfriend, but Knuckles mentions that he has "her" guarding ME and people immediately assume that she must be love interest. Man, I would love to see fandom where majority supports the idea of main hero being single.
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Re: Sonic's Taste in Human Women

Postby MetalSkulkBane » Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:47 am

Alset wrote:Wasn't there Test of Love in Sonic 06 where Sonic can choose between Elise and Amy? That kind proves it. Well, unless you don't count the game as canon.

Otherwise I would argue that Sonic is uninterested. And I don't mean it as asexual, just uninterested. But poor guy just can't have it, right? He's just not that type of character. People can look at Big the Cat and agree that he's happy being single and doesn't need girlfriend, but Knuckles mentions that he has "her" guarding ME and people immediately assume that she must be love interest. Man, I would love to see fandom where majority supports the idea of main hero being single.


Human mind is skewed like that. But I don't think Kirby or Samus (Metroid) are shipped to much.
There is aslo Optimus Prime, Samurai Jack, Penguins from Madagscar, Tom & Jerry. Heck, what about Megaman?
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Re: Sonic's Taste in Human Women

Postby Mr.Unsmiley » Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:16 pm

Optimus Prime wasn't single (at least in the original cartoon)
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Re: Sonic's Taste in Human Women

Postby MetalSkulkBane » Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:38 pm

Mr.Unsmiley wrote:Optimus Prime wasn't single (at least in the original cartoon)


Really? Live and learn. I didn't watched original yet, but judging from Aligned continuity (and first Bay movie) I could swear he was married to his job.
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Re: Sonic's Taste in Human Women

Postby Azul » Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:00 pm

Alset wrote:Wasn't there Test of Love in Sonic 06 where Sonic can choose between Elise and Amy? That kind proves it. Well, unless you don't count the game as canon.


Since the events of the game were literally undone by its climax, no it's not canon. However, it does present a theoretical possibility. That is to say just because it technically didn't happen doesn't mean it can't happen. However, it's a mini-game that leaves the choice to the player. There's no way of proving how things really happend or if it was an essential part of the quest.

Otherwise I would argue that Sonic is uninterested. And I don't mean it as asexual, just uninterested. But poor guy just can't have it, right? He's just not that type of character. People can look at Big the Cat and agree that he's happy being single and doesn't need girlfriend, but Knuckles mentions that he has "her" guarding ME and people immediately assume that she must be love interest. Man, I would love to see fandom where majority supports the idea of main hero being single.


People push for ships because relationships can be one of the most sastisfying human experiences. It makes sense that people would push for their favorite characters to find great happiness in such an area. Not saying you need to be in a relationship to be happy. Not that you need to be in a relationship to be happy.
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Re: Sonic's Taste in Human Women

Postby Alset » Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:05 pm

Azul wrote:
Since the events of the game were literally undone by its climax, no it's not canon. However, it does present a theoretical possibility. That is to say just because it technically didn't happen doesn't mean it can't happen. However, it's a mini-game that leaves the choice to the player. There's no way of proving how things really happend or if it was an essential part of the quest.


Still, player gets a choice, which implies that Sonic could do it, at least as much as he could go on date with Amy in Unleashed. Its not like game gave you ever option to join Eggman or rob shops.



Also, [retty sure Skipper had love interest, Kitka.
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Re: Sonic's Taste in Human Women

Postby Unknownshadow675 » Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:54 pm

Am I the only one who thought of cannibalism after reading the title?
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Re: Sonic's Taste in Human Women

Postby Mr.Unsmiley » Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:24 pm

MetalSkulkBane wrote:
Mr.Unsmiley wrote:Optimus Prime wasn't single (at least in the original cartoon)


Really? Live and learn. I didn't watched original yet, but judging from Aligned continuity (and first Bay movie) I could swear he was married to his job.


well, he basically is married to his job. he has a girlfriend (or whatever you'd call it) named Elita One before the war actually started. in the middle of the war, when the Autobots and the planet itself were basically out of resources, they were going to stage a secret mission to leave the planet to find resources, but the Decepticons found out and crashed their ship, which is what lead to them being stranded on Earth until the 1980s. Elita One was supposed to join them on the mission but got separated for some reason I dont recall offhand, but after they wake up in the 80s, they return to Cybertron a few times and then there's an episode which reveals the existence of Elita One and other girlbots who are a resistance group against the Decepticons that stayed on planet. by the end of the episode, Elita stays on Cybertron and Optimus returns to Earth, and then she doesn't ever appear again because the original cartoon didnt give a fart about continuity.

so, yes, Optimus has a girlfriend, but being involved in the war is apparently more important

Azul wrote:
Alset wrote:Wasn't there Test of Love in Sonic 06 where Sonic can choose between Elise and Amy? That kind proves it. Well, unless you don't count the game as canon.


Since the events of the game were literally undone by its climax, no it's not canon. However, it does present a theoretical possibility. That is to say just because it technically didn't happen doesn't mean it can't happen. However, it's a mini-game that leaves the choice to the player. There's no way of proving how things really happend or if it was an essential part of the quest.


I think that's the point, though. the results of the quest are less relevant than the fact that the quest exists, meaning in Sega's eyes at the time the game was made (they've probably changed their mind since then), Sonic did have feelings for Amy (and Elise). the ending of the game made it so Sonic never actually met Elise, and thus the result of whoever you picked in the quest will never be canon, but the fact remains that Amy was a choice in Sonic's mind, and since Amy was around before and after 06 unlike Elise, that possibility is still there

although Sonic and Amy both seemed more mellow in 06 than the usually do, so the idea of them being an item feels a bit more natural in that tone, it doesn't necessarily fit with the way they act in pretty much every other game
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Re: Sonic's Taste in Human Women

Postby MetalSkulkBane » Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:59 pm

Mr.Unsmiley wrote:
Azul wrote:
Alset wrote:Wasn't there Test of Love in Sonic 06 where Sonic can choose between Elise and Amy? That kind proves it. Well, unless you don't count the game as canon.


Since the events of the game were literally undone by its climax, no it's not canon. However, it does present a theoretical possibility. That is to say just because it technically didn't happen doesn't mean it can't happen. However, it's a mini-game that leaves the choice to the player. There's no way of proving how things really happend or if it was an essential part of the quest.


I think that's the point, though. the results of the quest are less relevant than the fact that the quest exists, meaning in Sega's eyes at the time the game was made (they've probably changed their mind since then), Sonic did have feelings for Amy (and Elise). the ending of the game made it so Sonic never actually met Elise, and thus the result of whoever you picked in the quest will never be canon, but the fact remains that Amy was a choice in Sonic's mind, and since Amy was around before and after 06 unlike Elise, that possibility is still there

although Sonic and Amy both seemed more mellow in 06 than the usually do, so the idea of them being an item feels a bit more natural in that tone, it doesn't necessarily fit with the way they act in pretty much every other game


As much as I like to threat continuity seriously I don't think anyone in Team Sonic cares enough to keep Amy/Sonic relation consistent. More games she's slightly annoying friend, other times Sonic will push her face and run away from her, but sometimes he can just spontaneously agree for a date.
it all depends from levels of seriousness Sega choses for a game. Same way Eggman threat to blow the city or pretend to be "King Doc".
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Re: Sonic's Taste in Human Women

Postby Azul » Tue Dec 08, 2015 5:21 pm

Mr.Unsmiley wrote: I think that's the point, though. the results of the quest are less relevant than the fact that the quest exists, meaning in Sega's eyes at the time the game was made (they've probably changed their mind since then), Sonic did have feelings for Amy (and Elise). the ending of the game made it so Sonic never actually met Elise, and thus the result of whoever you picked in the quest will never be canon, but the fact remains that Amy was a choice in Sonic's mind, and since Amy was around before and after 06 unlike Elise, that possibility is still there


All valid points.

although Sonic and Amy both seemed more mellow in 06 than the usually do, so the idea of them being an item feels a bit more natural in that tone, it doesn't necessarily fit with the way they act in pretty much every other game


Everything in 06 was mellow. If anything, I'm counting the behavior of the core trio and Amy as stand alone for this game only.

Unknownshadow675 wrote:Am I the only one who thought of cannibalism after reading the title?


Yes.

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