Julie Su And Knuckles are kissing cousins

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Re: Julie Su And Knuckles are kissing cousins

Postby Uwaaii » Tue Nov 17, 2015 12:35 am

When I was young I couldn't read the chart correctly and thought Knuckles and Julie-Su were siblings. Which made me more than confused because I understood they were a couple and ended up having kids.

But anyway it looks like what, 16 generations or so for Knuckles, and 4 generation for Julie-Su? I dunno about Julie-Su, but for Knuckles I think that's enough to make their gene diverse enough to not be considered taboo. If this happened in real life he wouldn't even know about it until they look at each other's family tree or something. No wait I'm getting confused here.

One thing that bothers me is why does Julie-Su have only 4 generation while Knuckles have 4 times as many? Did all her ancestor have kids at an older age, or all of Knuckles's ancestor have kids at a very young age?
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Re: Julie Su And Knuckles are kissing cousins

Postby Tylinos » Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:21 am

Uwaaii wrote:One thing that bothers me is why does Julie-Su have only 4 generation while Knuckles have 4 times as many? Did all her ancestor have kids at an older age, or all of Knuckles's ancestor have kids at a very young age?

Her family lived in the Twilight Cage, where time flowed at a much slower rate than on Mobius.
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Re: Julie Su And Knuckles are kissing cousins

Postby NiTROACTiVE » Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:47 am

Regarding this issue, I decided to have a small chat with Ken Penders himself on his Twitter about this, and fortunately he confirmed that Knuckles and Julie-Su are not biologically related in any way. He also stated this regarding on how their chart is shaped like a circle:
Ken Penders on Twitter wrote:Cory, check out the family trees of famous families in history, such as the Bushes, and you'll see similar lineage patterns

Here's my Tweet that started the small conversation (scroll down to see the replies):
https://twitter.com/NiTROACTiVE2048/sta ... 8428723200
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Re: Julie Su And Knuckles are kissing cousins

Postby Uwaaii » Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:17 am

Tylinos wrote:
Uwaaii wrote:One thing that bothers me is why does Julie-Su have only 4 generation while Knuckles have 4 times as many? Did all her ancestor have kids at an older age, or all of Knuckles's ancestor have kids at a very young age?

Her family lived in the Twilight Cage, where time flowed at a much slower rate than on Mobius.

Ah. Makes their relation even more awkward.

NiTROACTiVE wrote:Regarding this issue, I decided to have a small chat with Ken Penders himself on his Twitter about this, and fortunately he confirmed that Knuckles and Julie-Su are not biologically related in any way. He also stated this regarding on how their chart is shaped like a circle:
Ken Penders on Twitter wrote:Cory, check out the family trees of famous families in history, such as the Bushes, and you'll see similar lineage patterns

Here's my Tweet that started the small conversation (scroll down to see the replies):
https://twitter.com/NiTROACTiVE2048/sta ... 8428723200

His reply is "not in an immediate sense", which I took as meaning they're related with a common ancestor, but not related enough to call them "cousins". I think its impossible to not be biologically related "in any way" with a family tree like that.
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Re: Julie Su And Knuckles are kissing cousins

Postby The Shadow Imperator » Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:23 am

If having a common ancestor precluded two people from being in a relationship, the entire human race would cease to exist.
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Re: Julie Su And Knuckles are kissing cousins

Postby Mobotropolis » Tue Nov 17, 2015 7:30 am

Pretty much.

One thing that bothers me is why does Julie-Su have only 4 generation while Knuckles have 4 times as many?

The Dark Legion was banished to a Pocket Dimension by ... I forget, but time moves slower in the Pocket Dimension.

Even if they were just four generations apart they are not closely enough related for it to matter genetically.
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Re: Julie Su And Knuckles are kissing cousins

Postby WiNTER BELLS » Tue Nov 17, 2015 8:08 am

How many years did Edmund's side of this family tree span? I feel like some echidnas aged a tad slower than others (Some of Knuckle's ancestors looked great when compared to Sabre). I could have sworn that there were some echidnas who married late, but perhaps I'm just over-imagining things...

That aside, I'm in agreement with TSI on this one... Genes become so diverse as they pass on to new generations that it becomes difficult to trace ancestry very far. Each time a human offspring is made, for example, you inherit some random traits from your mother's chromosome, and some random traits from your father's chromosome. During the process your father's and mother's chromosome will undergo various changes and shuffle DNA between them as well. So things get really complicated, really early as you go down any family tree.

I skimped the details, but forgive me if I missed some points... it's been awhile since I spoke biology.
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Re: Julie Su And Knuckles are kissing cousins

Postby Vampfox » Tue Nov 17, 2015 8:58 am

I really don't see the big deal. Due to the time difference between Mobius Prime and the Twilight Cage they're so far apart that their's no problem genetic wise.
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Re: Julie Su And Knuckles are kissing cousins

Postby TheFatPanda » Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:19 am

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe even procreating with a first cousin is a lot safer than, say, brother and sister.

By which I mean, such an offspring would be the least likely to possess a genetic defect.
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Re: Julie Su And Knuckles are kissing cousins

Postby Ian Flynn » Tue Nov 17, 2015 3:30 pm

TheFatPanda wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe even procreating with a first cousin is a lot safer than, say, brother and sister.

By which I mean, such an offspring would be the least likely to possess a genetic defect.

First cousins, so long as it isn't repeated for multiple generations, is relatively safe genetically-speaking. Even on Julie-Su's end, four generations would be safe. On Knuckles's side, after seventeen generations, they're in the clear.

When this point first came up years ago, the grumblings weren't as much about genetics as it was Julie-Su - rather than being her own independent character - was retconned into being yet another echidna with a blood-tie to Knuckles.
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Re: Julie Su And Knuckles are kissing cousins

Postby Matt7325 » Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:43 am

As someone else has said, it's not the fact that they're related that's a big deal, it's the fact that Penders made such a big deal about them being part of the same family that makes it feel a bit icky, regardless of the number of generations between them. If he'd taken the Harry Potter route and had a character comment at some point about how echidna society is so insular that most of them are distantly related to each other at some point, this entire point would be moot.
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Re: Julie Su And Knuckles are kissing cousins

Postby Mavrickindigo » Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:33 pm

Ian Flynn wrote:
TheFatPanda wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe even procreating with a first cousin is a lot safer than, say, brother and sister.

By which I mean, such an offspring would be the least likely to possess a genetic defect.

First cousins, so long as it isn't repeated for multiple generations, is relatively safe genetically-speaking. Even on Julie-Su's end, four generations would be safe. On Knuckles's side, after seventeen generations, they're in the clear.

When this point first came up years ago, the grumblings weren't as much about genetics as it was Julie-Su - rather than being her own independent character - was retconned into being yet another echidna with a blood-tie to Knuckles.

And it persisted all the way through Enerjak reborn, where it was revealed that yes, every Echidna in the series was somehow related to Knuckles (Remington was Kragok's son, Finitevus absorbed his powers and became an anti-knuckles)
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Re: Julie Su And Knuckles are kissing cousins

Postby Ian Flynn » Wed Nov 18, 2015 4:26 pm

Mavrickindigo wrote:
Ian Flynn wrote:
TheFatPanda wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe even procreating with a first cousin is a lot safer than, say, brother and sister.

By which I mean, such an offspring would be the least likely to possess a genetic defect.

First cousins, so long as it isn't repeated for multiple generations, is relatively safe genetically-speaking. Even on Julie-Su's end, four generations would be safe. On Knuckles's side, after seventeen generations, they're in the clear.

When this point first came up years ago, the grumblings weren't as much about genetics as it was Julie-Su - rather than being her own independent character - was retconned into being yet another echidna with a blood-tie to Knuckles.

And it persisted all the way through Enerjak reborn, where it was revealed that yes, every Echidna in the series was somehow related to Knuckles (Remington was Kragok's son, Finitevus absorbed his powers and became an anti-knuckles)

Those aren't the same thing.

Remington being yet another blood relative was conceptualized by Ken Penders, heavily implied by Karl Bollers, and made concrete by me. That falls under the same critique as Julie-Su/the Dark Legion Grandmasters/entire Brotherhood.

Finitevus, being a Knuckles-series villain, of course had some tie to the protagonist. But he was not a blood relation.
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Re: Julie Su And Knuckles are kissing cousins

Postby Mavrickindigo » Wed Nov 18, 2015 11:02 pm

Ian Flynn wrote:
Mavrickindigo wrote:
Ian Flynn wrote:
TheFatPanda wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe even procreating with a first cousin is a lot safer than, say, brother and sister.

By which I mean, such an offspring would be the least likely to possess a genetic defect.

First cousins, so long as it isn't repeated for multiple generations, is relatively safe genetically-speaking. Even on Julie-Su's end, four generations would be safe. On Knuckles's side, after seventeen generations, they're in the clear.

When this point first came up years ago, the grumblings weren't as much about genetics as it was Julie-Su - rather than being her own independent character - was retconned into being yet another echidna with a blood-tie to Knuckles.

And it persisted all the way through Enerjak reborn, where it was revealed that yes, every Echidna in the series was somehow related to Knuckles (Remington was Kragok's son, Finitevus absorbed his powers and became an anti-knuckles)

Those aren't the same thing.

Remington being yet another blood relative was conceptualized by Ken Penders, heavily implied by Karl Bollers, and made concrete by me. That falls under the same critique as Julie-Su/the Dark Legion Grandmasters/entire Brotherhood.

Finitevus, being a Knuckles-series villain, of course had some tie to the protagonist. But he was not a blood relation.

True on Fini. I'm not saying its a bad thing or anything, just funny how every Echidna has something to do with knuckles. Even that one random guy in the dating arc that Julie-Su dated looked remarkably like Knuckles in that one panel and reminded her of him.

the joke that every character is [adjective] knuckles is well-founded in the comic
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