Who do you want Sally to hook up with in the post reboot?

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Re: Who do you want Sally to hook up with in the post reboot

Postby Azul » Wed Nov 11, 2015 6:10 pm

The KKM wrote:Because if a character is written in a way where their purpose runs opposite to a stable relationship, then the relationship is holding them back in the fiction. I mean this in the same sense as, say, "Batman's parents are holding him back"- for the purposes of the story, we NEED them to die. For Sonic's story, since he's ideally a nomad addicted to adventure, a romantic relationship means grounding and thus something he MUST avoid at all costs.


Not necessarily. Unhealthy relationships are all over the ficticious world. I think you meant if an unhealthy relationship is being depicted as a positive one or just plain poorly written then it stops the character from being utilized to their full potential. And I see where the point your trying to make with the Batman but there's a logical fallacy there. Batman's existence relies on the murder of his parents. Being a nomad isn't dependent on or defined by abstaining from romance.

DoNotDelete wrote:KKM has outlined both Sonic and Sally's situation pretty well there - for either of them a relationship is too much of a distraction from what they need to be focused on. For Sonic that's befouling Eggman's plans and beating up his goons.

That makes it sound like they dedicate 100% of their time to foiling Eggman which isn't true. Besides, I seriously doubt seeking love would distract them from fighting the good fight. They've got their prorities straight. If anything, that would only further motivate them to opposing evil: to protect the love they cherish. And with that sort of logic, then superheroes in general have no reason to get into relationships. No villian is so threatetening that they need constant surveillance. As Tony Stark said in Avengers: Age of Ultron, "Isn't that the WHY we fight? So we can end the fight and go home?" What happens when the fight's over? What do they do when they go home?

The KKM wrote:Which fundamentally altered his character.

That's character development.
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Re: Who do you want Sally to hook up with in the post reboot

Postby Meliden » Wed Nov 11, 2015 6:14 pm

Which Sonic can't really have anyway.
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Re: Who do you want Sally to hook up with in the post reboot

Postby TurboTailz » Wed Nov 11, 2015 6:18 pm

Meliden wrote:Which Sonic can't really have anyway.


It can be altered to an extent because that's storytelling.
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Re: Who do you want Sally to hook up with in the post reboot

Postby Azul » Wed Nov 11, 2015 6:31 pm

TurboTailz wrote:
Meliden wrote:Which Sonic can't really have anyway.


It can be altered to an extent because that's storytelling.

No, Meliden's got a point. Sonic's a static character. And if liberties were taken to allow development, I highly doubt SEGA would allow Archie to delve into his love life right after restricting it. Espicially since they have a death grip on the whole "all the single heroes" bit.
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Re: Who do you want Sally to hook up with in the post reboot

Postby TurboTailz » Wed Nov 11, 2015 6:38 pm

Azul wrote:
TurboTailz wrote:
Meliden wrote:Which Sonic can't really have anyway.


It can be altered to an extent because that's storytelling.

No, Meliden's got a point. Sonic's a static character. And if liberties were taken to allow development, I highly doubt SEGA would allow Archie to delve into his love life right after restricting it. Espicially since they have a death grip on the whole "all the single heroes" bit.


Have some faith like even a little subtle tweaking won't affect it that much. *flirt here and there*
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Re: Who do you want Sally to hook up with in the post reboot

Postby Azul » Wed Nov 11, 2015 6:43 pm

TurboTailz wrote:
Azul wrote:
TurboTailz wrote:
Meliden wrote:Which Sonic can't really have anyway.


It can be altered to an extent because that's storytelling.

No, Meliden's got a point. Sonic's a static character. And if liberties were taken to allow development, I highly doubt SEGA would allow Archie to delve into his love life right after restricting it. Espicially since they have a death grip on the whole "all the single heroes" bit.


Have some faith like even a little subtle tweaking won't affect it that much. *flirt here and there*

Oh I definately believe in that. But a flat out "Will you be my gal?" is unlikely given the cirucmstances. If they did, I'd be all "OMG NO WAI."
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Re: Who do you want Sally to hook up with in the post reboot

Postby Uwaaii » Thu Nov 12, 2015 11:04 pm

TurboTailz wrote:
Azul wrote:
TurboTailz wrote:
Meliden wrote:Which Sonic can't really have anyway.


It can be altered to an extent because that's storytelling.

No, Meliden's got a point. Sonic's a static character. And if liberties were taken to allow development, I highly doubt SEGA would allow Archie to delve into his love life right after restricting it. Espicially since they have a death grip on the whole "all the single heroes" bit.


Have some faith like even a little subtle tweaking won't affect it that much. *flirt here and there*

It'll be difficult. If he showed some affection for Sally, he'll need to show it to other girls too or else it'll be obvious the comic ships them and ignoring SEGA's rules. But then it makes another problem: Sonic may be a gentlemen toward ladies, but he isn't a playboy so it's out of his character.

Spoiler: show
I'm not talking about any of you guys, but all this conversation remind me of how creepy some media's obsession toward love and sex are. They can't resist having a character without a boyfriend/girlfriend, or something hinting romance. Especially when said character is a female. Its as if a character no matter how great their personality, traits, and flaws are cannot be perfect without love. They'll even risk altering a character's personality to make it work. It's getting better, but still.
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Re: Who do you want Sally to hook up with in the post reboot

Postby Mr.Unsmiley » Thu Nov 12, 2015 11:48 pm

Uwaaii wrote:
Spoiler: show
I'm not talking about any of you guys, but all this conversation remind me of how creepy some media's obsession toward love and sex are. They can't resist having a character without a boyfriend/girlfriend, or something hinting romance. Especially when said character is a female. Its as if a character no matter how great their personality, traits, and flaws are cannot be perfect without love. They'll even risk altering a character's personality to make it work. It's getting better, but still.


yeah, it's exactly what I meant when I called it compulsory sexuality back on page 2
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Re: Who do you want Sally to hook up with in the post reboot

Postby DoNotDelete » Fri Nov 13, 2015 2:11 am

I wonder if the old focus on relationships/relationship drama was partly to blame on the influence of the main Archie comics - such as 'Archie', 'Betty and Veronica' and 'Jughead'. I mean - I've never actually read these comics myself - but I presume they're mostly about teenage highschool relationships and love triangles and guff like that - is that right?

Wikipedia wrote:Archie is a typical small-town teenager. Generous, well-mannered, but clumsy, he is genuinely liked by many of his friends. Archie goes crazy when he sees an attractive girl, but his two main crushes are Veronica Lodge and Betty Cooper, forming the love triangle driving the comic's plot-lines. He has the best intentions, but often comes into conflict with Veronica's father Hiram Lodge and Riverdale High's principal, Waldo Weatherbee. As the lead singer of The Archies, Archie performs with Betty and Veronica, as well as his rival Reggie, and best buddy Jughead.

Apparently it is.

So maybe the earlier Sonic comics were just emulating the kinds of things that went on in the 'main' Archie comics? Perhaps it was presumed that was their target demographic? Perhaps it has taken all this time to refocus the Sonic comics into a more action-based storytelling that is different to comics such as 'Archie' and the like?
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Re: Who do you want Sally to hook up with in the post reboot

Postby Azul » Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:58 am

Uwaaii wrote:It'll be difficult. If he showed some affection for Sally, he'll need to show it to other girls too or else it'll be obvious the comic ships them and ignoring SEGA's rules. But then it makes another problem: Sonic may be a gentlemen toward ladies, but he isn't a playboy so it's out of his character.


Flirting or showing someone special attention isn't exactly the same as putting them in a relationship. And making someone flirt with everyone is counter productive in prioritizing a relationship.

Spoiler: show
I'm not talking about any of you guys, but all this conversation remind me of how creepy some media's obsession toward love and sex are. They can't resist having a character without a boyfriend/girlfriend, or something hinting romance. Especially when said character is a female. Its as if a character no matter how great their personality, traits, and flaws are cannot be perfect without love. They'll even risk altering a character's personality to make it work. It's getting better, but still.


A perfect character is a bad character because they'd be unrelatable and unrealistic. Romance is often one of the most sought after human desires. Hence, there is a sense of achievement when two characters you've been shipping finally become an item. Besides, there's more than plenty of fictional characters that are single and not looking for love.
Last edited by Azul on Fri Nov 13, 2015 6:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Who do you want Sally to hook up with in the post reboot

Postby TurboTailz » Fri Nov 13, 2015 5:42 pm

Dude you got to work on your editing skills. I know Turbotailz didn't say that :(hearty laughter): .

Azul wrote:
Uwaaii wrote:It'll be difficult. If he showed some affection for Sally, he'll need to show it to other girls too or else it'll be obvious the comic ships them and ignoring SEGA's rules. But then it makes another problem: Sonic may be a gentlemen toward ladies, but he isn't a playboy so it's out of his character.

Spoiler: show
I'm not talking about any of you guys, but all this conversation remind me of how creepy some media's obsession toward love and sex are. They can't resist having a character without a boyfriend/girlfriend, or something hinting romance. Especially when said character is a female. Its as if a character no matter how great their personality, traits, and flaws are cannot be perfect without love. They'll even risk altering a character's personality to make it work. It's getting better, but still.

A perfect character is a bad character because they'd be unrelatable and unrealistic. Romance is often one of the most sought after human desires. Hence, there is a sense of achievement when two characters you've been shipping finally become an item. Besides, there's more than plenty of fictional characters that are single and not looking for love.


When it comes to characters regardless of gender that the story displays. People will ship anything that's personally appealing to them even it's not the story direction like One Piece for an example or action shows similar to that. Then you have stories that does focuses on relationships and probably go too hard on it like Legend of Korra for an example and stories similar to that style. Legend of Korra could of been done without romance until later in series just like the original avatar.

When it comes to Sonic x Sally case for relationships. Those two already had something going on in Satam and Archie together because that was the writer's intention.. When a story already have establish characters in a relationship at start it's quite easy to ship them. Seeing Sonic x Sally interacting with each other when they had their moment. The viewers came to know those two always teased and playful flirted with each other, but when it comes to business and action. The show stays true to what it was about while throwing bread crumbs here and there to please the shippers for those two couples.

When romance is done on purpose which in case rushing before developing to see if they're capable. It never turns out good for the viewers because it was quite obviously to know where it's going from the start. However if the story is developing romance or something already established. It's easier for the viewers to accept, see where's its leading and to see how they interact.
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Re: Who do you want Sally to hook up with in the post reboot

Postby Mordum » Fri Nov 13, 2015 11:08 pm

Azul wrote:A perfect character is a bad character because they'd be unrelatable and unrealistic.


A character is only as interesting as the context that character is portrayed in. I can absolutely think of works where "perfect" characters are absolutely fascinating: the original The Day The Earth Stood Still and Pasolini's The Gospel According to St. Matthew, just for starters.

And an all ages comic is honestly a pretty appropriate place for flawless, static, but still endearing characters. It just depends on how the story is structured and what that story hopes to accomplish. I don't find Sonic any less compelling a lead because of the fact he's generally lacking in blatant flaws. That's just the mechanism of the escapism that's built into the general Sonic brand that I'm willingly buying into when I read the books or play the games.

TurboTailz wrote:Then you have stories that does focuses on relationships and probably go too hard on it like Legend of Korra for an example and stories similar to that style. Legend of Korra could of been done without romance until later in series just like the original avatar.


The characters in Korra are older than the characters in Last Airbender. 17-18 year olds in Korra not taking as long as 12-14 year olds to approach someone they're interested in makes perfect sense.
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Re: Who do you want Sally to hook up with in the post reboot

Postby TheEzekiel300 » Sat Nov 14, 2015 9:42 am

It's amazing how Sega just magically put's Sega Sonic's established friends in the new towns he comes across, yet he is supposed to be an adventurer. Like in Station Square they seemed to be established there. Amy has an apartment and Tails his workshop. Then there is Amy she is in the same town with Sonic in Sonic Unleashed. Sonic's friends in Sonic Generations. How on earth would Sega Sonic's friends even be able to keep up with him. Why even have those established friends at all? At least in Archie Sonic it makes a little more sense. For Sonic and particularly Tails to get that established when Sonic is a world adventurer really says something. This sort of makes Archie Sonic makes sense when it comes to this. Even post reboot even though Sonic is established in Knothole and Mobotropolis, it is still indicated that he does still go on adventures like the time he went on adventure with Blaze during Ian's early run. Sega Sonic is supposed to be a world traveling adventurer, yet his Sega friends are just..."there"... out of nowhere despite Sonic traveling earth at the speed of sound. In some ways how is Knothole and Mobotroplis any different from Station Square, the town in Sonic unleashed and the town in Sonic 06?
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Re: Who do you want Sally to hook up with in the post reboot

Postby Penguin God » Sat Nov 14, 2015 9:47 am

It should probably be noted that Tails' home moves all over the place in the games, and Sonic's only "major" friends are Tails, Amy and Knuckles, who all seem to travel almost as much as he does (except for Knuckles who seems to only get out of the house when he's with Sonic and Tails.) His friends are carefully made to not actually anchor him down. Heck, several of the games open with Tails tracking Sonic down and meeting him in a place that's brand new to either of them.
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Re: Who do you want Sally to hook up with in the post reboot

Postby The KKM » Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:42 am

Yeah. Every game pretty much opens with the assumption Sonic's just been through some travels and happens to find his friends again. Not seeing how that's a problem at all.
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