Who do you want Sally to hook up with in the post reboot?

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Re: Who do you want Sally to hook up with in the post reboot

Postby Azul » Tue Nov 10, 2015 6:57 pm

The KKM wrote:If the intended personality for Sally gets fully realised, she's best shipped with no-one, really. Incidentally. Unless it's a Scrooge and Goldie deal where it's a one time that marks a lifetime. Otherwise she's a life dedicated to work, you'll either find another character who's comparatively submiss in that or she works better as perpetually alone by her own design

This kind of notion has always confused me. People tend to use this argument when confronting Sonic's relationship status all the time. How does getting in a relationship hold a character back? It's not like dedicating your life to one purpose can get in the way of relationships, otherwise she'd have no friends either.
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Re: Who do you want Sally to hook up with in the post reboot

Postby TurboTailz » Tue Nov 10, 2015 9:27 pm

I always thought Sonic x Sally had decent chemistry. Sure they had their moments when they go into their debates, but at the end of the day they're still cuddling. In Satam the romance was light since most of the time that show was about action. I thought it was okay in my books, but I never went into details about it seeing if the show had flaws. I think the comic was like this until later on when the stories got a serious tone. That's why I think when Ian took over he tried to bring that Satam concept back.
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Re: Who do you want Sally to hook up with in the post reboot

Postby The KKM » Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:57 am

Azul wrote:
The KKM wrote:If the intended personality for Sally gets fully realised, she's best shipped with no-one, really. Incidentally. Unless it's a Scrooge and Goldie deal where it's a one time that marks a lifetime. Otherwise she's a life dedicated to work, you'll either find another character who's comparatively submiss in that or she works better as perpetually alone by her own design

This kind of notion has always confused me. People tend to use this argument when confronting Sonic's relationship status all the time. How does getting in a relationship hold a character back? It's not like dedicating your life to one purpose can get in the way of relationships, otherwise she'd have no friends either.

Because if a character is written in a way where their purpose runs opposite to a stable relationship, then the relationship is holding them back in the fiction. I mean this in the same sense as, say, "Batman's parents are holding him back"- for the purposes of the story, we NEED them to die. For Sonic's story, since he's ideally a nomad addicted to adventure, a romantic relationship means grounding and thus something he MUST avoid at all costs. For Sally, her character is often mentioned to be intended as a workaholic, a kind of character that works best when we see that that life is costing them in other elements- such as romance.
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Re: Who do you want Sally to hook up with in the post reboot

Postby DoNotDelete » Wed Nov 11, 2015 1:12 am

KKM has outlined both Sonic and Sally's situation pretty well there - for either of them a relationship is too much of a distraction from what they need to be focused on. For Sonic that's befouling Eggman's plans and beating up his goons. For Sally it's keeping abreast of everything that's going on in the world and organising the Freedom Fighters to address those concerns.

Does Sally have any princess-related duties anymore? Is she even really a princess anymore? That whole royalty thing seems a little vague in my mind right now - is there even a squirrel monarchy as such in this world post-super genesis wave?
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Re: Who do you want Sally to hook up with in the post reboot

Postby TurboTailz » Wed Nov 11, 2015 1:28 am

DoNotDelete wrote:KKM has outlined both Sonic and Sally's situation pretty well there - for either of them a relationship is too much of a distraction from what they need to be focused on. For Sonic that's befouling Eggman's plans and beating up his goons. For Sally it's keeping abreast of everything that's going on in the world and organising the Freedom Fighters to address those concerns.


Not sure if that's a good reason to why they can't be in a relationship? Yes priorities are important, but there's always a moment for break time when the mission is done. If anything that sounds like a strong relationship between the two having each other trusts. The way it sounds like is a Bulma x fusion of Vegeta and Goku *Vegito* relationship. So where's the distraction besides just caring for one another?
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Re: Who do you want Sally to hook up with in the post reboot

Postby Meliden » Wed Nov 11, 2015 1:31 am

Sonic does not do breaks, he's always running and looking for the next adventure. The most he gets for a break is a nap out somewhere.
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Re: Who do you want Sally to hook up with in the post reboot

Postby TurboTailz » Wed Nov 11, 2015 1:49 am

Meliden wrote:Sonic does not do breaks, he's always running and looking for the next adventure. The most he gets for a break is a nap out somewhere.


Yeah, but we're talking about comic Sonic. He's always with his crew so it's not like he's on some long journey solo mission exploring the world unless it was assigned. A concept like that means he really shouldn't be with the freedom fighters unless they need his support.
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Re: Who do you want Sally to hook up with in the post reboot

Postby GentlemanX » Wed Nov 11, 2015 2:33 am

Which is how SatAM and early Archie founded their relationship, Sonic and Sally's first cause was overthrowing Robotnik; there was no room for a regular relationship just flirting. While not a shining moment for the comic, the slap in 134 also focused on this element since the reason Sally leaves Sonic is because he's unwilling to stop the fight with Robotnik. The reason the moment is so reviled by fans is because it's such a betrayal of Sally's character: she should know they have to fight Robotnik and that Sonic's always going to be at the front lines leading the charge because of who he is. The trauma of the time is certainly worth some credit, but fans expected Sally to be more mature about the situation because that's who she is, she works hard for the greater good she believes in.

That said, I don't believe that part of her character eliminates her ability to have a functioning relationship. Just like in the real world, there are moments when the work a holic needs to stop and unwind or else they snap; which if your going to be showing a healthy protagonist in children's media should be a must. Once again though, this doesn't demand romance, unwinding can be seeing Sally have a hobby like books or just hanging out with friends like Nicole or Bunnie; having someone special to spend that break time with is only one option. Sally in SatAM and pre-reboot was attracted to Sonic because he had a big heart and a drive for activity, which workaholic Sally would see as productive rather than tiring. Sonic had his job and Sally had hers, what time they could manage together was seldom but appreciated (see STH 222).

I think people put too much stock into Sonic'c "Won't Stop, Just Go" attitude, or at least they misinterpret it. Sonic's always doing something, that much is true, but I wouldn't call him addicted to adventure. That makes me think of some of the cringe worthy dialogue in Shadow the Hedgehog. I just got through watching Sonic Unleashed's cutscenes again and that whole story, while focused on adventure sure, also has Sonic completely stop to show things to and experience things with Chip, like ice cream for example. Sonic X episode 20 "Departure! Egg Fort II/Cruise Blues" shows what Sonic doesn't do, sit still doing nothing like Chris wanted. At the same time, in episode 51 "Chris' Long Journey/Friends 'Til the End" Sonic stays with Chris rather than go home, because he cares about Chris and wants to be there for him; like with Chip in Unleashed.

As I've said in this thread already, I don't really care if Sonic and Sally become an item post reboot, but I did like the flirting which is certainly doable with Sega's mandates and would fit both characters fine. If the "no steady girlfriend" mandate weren't in place though, I think Sonic and Sally would work fine as a couple. Sonic needs to always be doing something, but spending some time alone with Sally is something, it's not like they'd just sit doing nothing. That's a thing real world people do not Sonic characters. :wink: But honestly, Sally's workaholic schedule would actually make her an almost ideal option for a partner. She's always doing something that he can be part of and often that involves smashing this and helping that, which is what he'd be doing anyway. Every so often the two would have a rare quiet moment together before they got back to work. As someone who's currently transitioning into "okay, my schedule's like this and your schedule's like this, so we can get together for this time here" mode, it's not actually too far from the truth. Would Sonic and Sally ever get married like in MxYL? I don't think so, tying Sonic down to a throne is waaaaaay too much. But dating Sally while they're both still out in the field? That doesn't seem far-fetched in the slightest.
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Re: Who do you want Sally to hook up with in the post reboot

Postby TurboTailz » Wed Nov 11, 2015 2:59 am

GentlemanX wrote:Would Sonic and Sally ever get married like in MxYL? I don't think so, tying Sonic down to a throne is waaaaaay too much. But dating Sally while they're both still out in the field? That doesn't seem far-fetched in the slightest.


Even if they did get married I still think their personalities and roles would remained the same. They know each other by now and how to communicate with one another. Sonic will be always out on missions or doing a scenic tour while she does her paper work and keeping the kingdom in check.
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Re: Who do you want Sally to hook up with in the post reboot

Postby The KKM » Wed Nov 11, 2015 4:44 am

GentlemanX wrote:Which is how SatAM and early Archie founded their relationship, Sonic and Sally's first cause was overthrowing Robotnik; there was no room for a regular relationship just flirting. While not a shining moment for the comic, the slap in 134 also focused on this element since the reason Sally leaves Sonic is because he's unwilling to stop the fight with Robotnik. The reason the moment is so reviled by fans is because it's such a betrayal of Sally's character: she should know they have to fight Robotnik and that Sonic's always going to be at the front lines leading the charge because of who he is. The trauma of the time is certainly worth some credit, but fans expected Sally to be more mature about the situation because that's who she is, she works hard for the greater good she believes in.

That said, I don't believe that part of her character eliminates her ability to have a functioning relationship. Just like in the real world, there are moments when the work a holic needs to stop and unwind or else they snap; which if your going to be showing a healthy protagonist in children's media should be a must. Once again though, this doesn't demand romance, unwinding can be seeing Sally have a hobby like books or just hanging out with friends like Nicole or Bunnie; having someone special to spend that break time with is only one option. Sally in SatAM and pre-reboot was attracted to Sonic because he had a big heart and a drive for activity, which workaholic Sally would see as productive rather than tiring. Sonic had his job and Sally had hers, what time they could manage together was seldom but appreciated (see STH 222).

I think people put too much stock into Sonic'c "Won't Stop, Just Go" attitude, or at least they misinterpret it. Sonic's always doing something, that much is true, but I wouldn't call him addicted to adventure. That makes me think of some of the cringe worthy dialogue in Shadow the Hedgehog. I just got through watching Sonic Unleashed's cutscenes again and that whole story, while focused on adventure sure, also has Sonic completely stop to show things to and experience things with Chip, like ice cream for example. Sonic X episode 20 "Departure! Egg Fort II/Cruise Blues" shows what Sonic doesn't do, sit still doing nothing like Chris wanted. At the same time, in episode 51 "Chris' Long Journey/Friends 'Til the End" Sonic stays with Chris rather than go home, because he cares about Chris and wants to be there for him; like with Chip in Unleashed.

As I've said in this thread already, I don't really care if Sonic and Sally become an item post reboot, but I did like the flirting which is certainly doable with Sega's mandates and would fit both characters fine. If the "no steady girlfriend" mandate weren't in place though, I think Sonic and Sally would work fine as a couple. Sonic needs to always be doing something, but spending some time alone with Sally is something, it's not like they'd just sit doing nothing. That's a thing real world people do not Sonic characters. :wink: But honestly, Sally's workaholic schedule would actually make her an almost ideal option for a partner. She's always doing something that he can be part of and often that involves smashing this and helping that, which is what he'd be doing anyway. Every so often the two would have a rare quiet moment together before they got back to work. As someone who's currently transitioning into "okay, my schedule's like this and your schedule's like this, so we can get together for this time here" mode, it's not actually too far from the truth. Would Sonic and Sally ever get married like in MxYL? I don't think so, tying Sonic down to a throne is waaaaaay too much. But dating Sally while they're both still out in the field? That doesn't seem far-fetched in the slightest.


I think you're just getting a different idea of "adventure" than what I mean. Unleashed is the perfect example of it- sure he's stopping to smell the flowers, but he also keeps moving. He's not living in the Helicarrier doing fight simulations, he's not living with a group of freedom fighters in Mobotropolis, he's always moving. He's nomadic. It doesn't mean he's always RUSHING, but it also means he's never STOPPING- not for long, anyways. Not enough for an actual romantic relationship. Especially not with a character whose deal is the exact opposite- "I must stay here and protect my people". It's the whole Sonic vs Knuckles dichotomy, except instead of Knuckles it's a mix of Princess Di and a stereotypical 80's businesswoman.

I mean, I love Ep 51 of Sonic X. Pay attention to it, though. He stays for Chris, but he's also always aware he can return back. He stays just enough to make sure Chris is fine. He's caring about the moment- but when the job of the moment is done, when the adventure's over, when he's certain of his friend's well-being, he Chaos-Controls away. Unsure they'll see each other again, but they don't need to see each other again anyways- they'll "always have Paris", per se.
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Re: Who do you want Sally to hook up with in the post reboot

Postby Penguin God » Wed Nov 11, 2015 5:38 am

Adventure can also be tourism is the important bit there. It's not always the hero's journey. Sonic's a nomad who sees what he can see, does what he can do, and loves competition or thrills or lazy beaches or jumping off clock towers or eating gourmet dumplings. He loves experiencing new things and seeing everything the world has to offer, in an expression of personal freedom to its most extreme (no responsibilities or anchors). In that way, he's addicted to adventure and can't really be slowed down. And Sally is literally the exact opposite. Her whole life is defined by her responsibilities and anchors, even when her character is portrayed positively. She will never go on a tour of wherever just for the sake of it and shirk her duties or her people or her family or a million other things she's attached to. They're not just an odd couple, they're incompatibly different.
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Re: Who do you want Sally to hook up with in the post reboot

Postby Mobotropolis » Wed Nov 11, 2015 7:31 am

... is Sonic really a nomad in the book, though?

He is pretty firmly affiliated with Mobotropolis and spent most of his time there outside of the three big globe trotting adventures; the one he took to take on Nagus, the one with Team Fighters right before the reboot, and the extremely long one we're on now. In most cases he isn't really being touristy or admiring the scenery. He seems to be just passing through with a particular goal in mind.

I always thought that SatAM/Archie Sonic was the most grounded of all his incarnations since he was very clearly attached to Mobotropolis/Knothole. He has expressed distaste at the thought of settling down and leading a " normal " life, but that seemed to be more attached to the possibility of not being able to fight anymore which relieves a number of tensions for him. And XYL shows that, eventually, he gets over it and actually does settle ... if for no other reason then because he's 10-15 years out of his prime fighting years.

I took Sonic's response during The Slap incident as his acknowledgement that his priorities are elsewhere now. He thought he was more useful on the front lines than he'd be on a throne. If the situation was slightly different and Sally didn't want him to step away from the front lines I imagine they would've went through with it.
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Re: Who do you want Sally to hook up with in the post reboot

Postby Mr.Unsmiley » Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:42 am

Mobotropolis wrote:... is Sonic really a nomad in the book, though?

He is pretty firmly affiliated with Mobotropolis and spent most of his time there outside of the three big globe trotting adventures;


this is counting the globe trotting adventures that we've seen for ourselves, however, since the reboot, Sonic has made several references to the adventures he's done without the Freedom Fighters (I think in the Champions arc he says something like "I don't tell you guys about everything I've done"). this would seem to imply that Sonic is a freelancer, only Ian hasn't actually shown him as such yet. with the decision to keep the Freedom Fighters for familiarity's sake post-reboot, it would seem to be writing himself in a corner where Sonic is still attached to Mobotropolis, but it isn't impossible that him and Tails could go off on some solo adventures after the Shattered World Crisis is over
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Re: Who do you want Sally to hook up with in the post reboot

Postby The Swordsman » Wed Nov 11, 2015 5:38 pm

Meliden wrote:Sonic does not do breaks, he's always running and looking for the next adventure. The most he gets for a break is a nap out somewhere.

Neither does Vegeta (in the not taking breaks) but he married Bulma anyway.
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Re: Who do you want Sally to hook up with in the post reboot

Postby The KKM » Wed Nov 11, 2015 5:45 pm

Which fundamentally altered his character.
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