Lost Hedgehog Tales

Forum devoted to Sonic the Hedgehog, Sonic Universe and the entire Sonic line by Archie Comics.

Re: Lost Hedgehog Tales

Postby The Shadow Imperator » Mon Nov 02, 2015 12:25 pm

Mr.Unsmiley wrote:I havent read it yet because I dont really know about the old universe, but I looked at the title page and it states the new era begins with 256... that seems like an odd place to start it, in the middle of a 4-issue arc that also follows directly from the end of the first reboot Universe arc

I think that's because Countdown to Chaos was something of a transitory period.
User avatar
The Shadow Imperator
BumbleFan
 
Posts: 130
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 8:56 pm

Re: Lost Hedgehog Tales

Postby Meliden » Mon Nov 02, 2015 12:28 pm

I dunno if it's taking it from the Shattered World Crisis or something, but for LHT's plan timeline it might as well be way back at #248, since that's when things jumped around absolutely. Although it seems at least parts of Blaze's arc were going to play out in the old universe anyway, and there's still the matter of the old designs being used in #252 before being changed or something along that line (I remember such a thing for Nicole?).

Edit: That said, Ian could just be wrong; Genesis was not during the fifteenth anniversary, that much is for certain.
User avatar
Meliden
BumbleCult
 
Posts: 6019
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2009 5:18 pm
Location: ベクエス

Re: Lost Hedgehog Tales

Postby The KKM » Mon Nov 02, 2015 1:10 pm

The usage of old designs in 252 was down to the new designs not being finished, not a question of it possibly still being meant for the old continuity.
User avatar
The KKM
BumbleClan
 
Posts: 4708
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2008 7:40 am
Location: Portugal

Re: Lost Hedgehog Tales

Postby Tylinos » Mon Nov 02, 2015 1:26 pm

When I read it, I figured Ian just got the numbers wrong, since he also said the old universe went up to #252.
User avatar
Tylinos
BumbleKnight
 
Posts: 931
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:43 am

Re: Lost Hedgehog Tales

Postby DoNotDelete » Mon Nov 02, 2015 2:38 pm

SimonSays wrote:
DoNotDelete wrote:I don't agree that it's a 'painfully stupid' thing for her to do. Bunnie choosing to become a cyborg again would have been borne from her frustration at not being able to prevent Antoine from coming to harm - at feeling helpless/ordinary because she no longer had her robotic limbs. Yes being 'normal again' has its benefits, but at the same time she would have become more of a 'bystander' than a freedom fighter.

Bunnie making that choice - choosing to become a cyborg again - is about coming to terms with who you are. Choosing to own your scars. Turning the pain of the past into strength instead of forever being a victim. It's a story of strength on her part - not of weakness.

I think the "stupid" part of what she did wasn't choosing to have robot limbs, but rather to go directly to the enemy for them without telling anyone else about it. It was super impulsive, and honestly I felt like it isolated Bunnie a little bit by showing that besides Antoine and Sally, she really didn't feel like she was close enough with the other Freedom Fighters or citizens to seek comfort and advice from them. I can think of such a huge list of things that could go wrong by getting legionized limbs from Beau, it seems irresponsible to put yourself and your friends in that kind of danger when it's not at all necessary.

I imagine - because of the circumstances at the time - Ian had to condense a lot of whatever story components he had planned for Bunnie's transition toward being legionised into something that felt so... abrupt. But Bunnie's connection with Beau had already been introduced to us - and he is family after all - and a cyborg - so for Bunnie to turn to him when she's already been torn to pieces by Antoine's death and Sally's roboticisation doesn't seem so out of order to me - grief does make you prone to making rash (if not misguided) decisions - as somebody else already mentioned.

Mobotropolis wrote:Even if it lead to the same conclusion (which it would because Rabbot) I would've liked to see her stick around a bit more and actually try before getting cybernetics again. She ran away at her very first failure and didn't even talk to her other friends about it. That made her character seem weak and her decisions selfish. Yeahsure you have the right to do whatever you want to your body, but you are part of a team and these are your friends. Act like it?

I don't know that any of the other Freedom Fighters at the time would have been able to give Bunnie the feedback/sounding boards she needed - I don't see that Amy, Tails or Rotor would have been able to talk through her thoughts of being re-robotcised without ridiculing her - Sonic certainly would not be able to understand that kind of choice. I also think (the grief-stricken and emotionally fragile) Bunnie might even have become disillusioned with being entirely organic - resenting the weakness of 'fleshies' and being drawn toward the power and strength of the machine. In that mindset, Amy, Tails, Rotor and Sonic represent what she sees as 'weak' and they are not necessarily the counsel she needs to help her work through/resolve her thoughts.

I would have found it interesting for Bunnie to talk things through and build new relationships with other characters through this transition - I think Shard could have talked to her about wanting to become a cyborg again, I think his insights on an organic being drawn to the power and strength offered by mechanisation would have given them both a lot to think about. Nicole too would have provided interesting thoughts - perhaps being the only Freedom Fighter who could have talked this through with Bunnie.

Sometimes during grief you need to seek out new friends and faces - grief alters your perception of the world, yourself and your current friends, you feel lost and isolated and the answers are just not there. So it doesn't strike me as odd that Bunnie would strike out on her own on a voyage of self-discovery. It happens - especially during times of grief.
User avatar
DoNotDelete
BumbleCitizen
 
Posts: 329
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2015 2:17 am
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Lost Hedgehog Tales

Postby Meliden » Mon Nov 02, 2015 3:51 pm

If she ever saw Sonic as weak because he was made of flesh, then she'd definitely be beyond just not thinking straight, that's nigh stupidity.
User avatar
Meliden
BumbleCult
 
Posts: 6019
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2009 5:18 pm
Location: ベクエス

Re: Lost Hedgehog Tales

Postby DoNotDelete » Mon Nov 02, 2015 4:02 pm

Weak in that he couldn't stop Sally from being robotcised. Weak in that he couldn't stop Antoine from dying. These are the kind of things Bunnie would begin to hold against Sonic. Not thinking straight. Lashing out. I would have liked to see Bunnie cut Sonic down to size with those home truths in a moment of anger/frustration: "Some hero you are, Sonic."

Turning toward machinery/cyberisation is often played (by writers) as an attempt to cheat death too. Flesh beings are mortal - having just had Antoine die on her, Bunnie would be all too aware of the limitations of mortal beings. Moving toward mechanisation is moving toward immortality/immunity to death and disease.

Bunnie could even have spiralled completely away from her friends - and toward being completely cyberised/legionised (under the influence of the legion) - only to be 'rescued' (or brought back to her senses) by the other Freedom Fighters at the last moment.

All depends on how far Ian would have gone with splitting up the Freedom Fighters, I guess.
User avatar
DoNotDelete
BumbleCitizen
 
Posts: 329
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2015 2:17 am
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Lost Hedgehog Tales

Postby The Swordsman » Mon Nov 02, 2015 4:33 pm

Mobotropolis wrote:
Yes, She has to raise them all by her self, there is absolutely no one to out there help her. :roll:

That wasn't what I was getting at.

Having Bunnie out of commission for who knows how long isn't a good scenario. It's already bad enough that she was written out of the narrative so soon after Sally was roboticized. Bunnie was gone for a year real-world time. Now she's going to be back but unable to contribute to the Freedom Fighters for an nondescript amount of time. Probably for another year. Maybe for two years. Post-reboot I think only a couple of weeks have passed since reality reset over two years ago real-time. For me, the idea that Bunnie would be out of the action for so long for such a little payoff hurts more than whatever they can come up with to try and justify the pregnancy to begin with.

I just don't see the benefit of even going there in an action comic book. This isn't the place for that. The treatment of the three infants we've had before (Little John, Alexis, and Mace) should give a general idea of what to expect The most we'll see of them is Bunnie or someone else holding them as they make baby-noises. Since time moves so slowly we didn't really get to see them develop. Even during a Time Skip like XYL none of them went on to do anything significant. Only Mace even showed up and that was in a bit-role/civilian role in the original timeline.

There are other ways to develop these characters and even strengthen their relationship. There's no need for this.

Just because its an action series doesn't mean it couldn't work or doesn't belong as Marvel has done this before,(the Fantastic 4 for example) the real problem is the timing. There is just too many things going on already, if this happened when Antoine was still alive and the comic was during its down time it would of work better. The three infants we had before were the children of side characters which don't get as much focus as the main cast and the XYL series is a mess. While yes there are other ways to develop these characters and even strengthen their relationship, the benefits would be a permanent change that doesn't have to kill off a character, advances time and opens up more story line possibilities.
User avatar
The Swordsman
BumbleCitizen
 
Posts: 482
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 2:05 pm
Location: Somewhere fighting the Eggman Empire for the United Federation.

Re: Lost Hedgehog Tales

Postby DudestofGuys » Mon Nov 02, 2015 5:39 pm

Mr.Unsmiley wrote:I havent read it yet because I dont really know about the old universe, but I looked at the title page and it states the new era begins with 256... that seems like an odd place to start it, in the middle of a 4-issue arc that also follows directly from the end of the first reboot Universe arc


258 is probably the best jumping-on-point, but that's likely meant as the end of 256 being the point of no return.
DudestofGuys
BumbleFan
 
Posts: 184
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 11:27 am

Re: Lost Hedgehog Tales

Postby Antiyonder » Mon Nov 02, 2015 6:14 pm

squeakyboots13 wrote:It's probably just the nature of working on a licensed series. At the end of the day, the comic is only there to promote the games. So if Sega wants to do a special arc for the 20th anniversary, then it's going to happen no matter what. If Archie strikes a deal with McDonalds and they want to put out an Olympics themed issue, then yes, they are going to drop everything and do that. Mega Man had hit similar roadblocks as well. That's just what happens.


True, but the comic did reach 200 issues and beyond despite creative liberties taken. A feat which other comics based on video games can't yet claim. And while Ken is a good example of someone who goes too far, I think Ian proved (especially with Mega Man) that the stories can be faithful even with liberties taken.

Not against SEGA having a say, I just think they could communicate more with Ian or anyone who writers to reach middle grounds rather than having general "Thou Shall Not" rules. I mean afterall, unlike adapting say a comic or novel to TV or movies, video game from comic means adapting something sometimes low on story to a story based medium.
Antiyonder
BumbleCitizen
 
Posts: 293
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2013 1:09 am

Re: Lost Hedgehog Tales

Postby The KKM » Mon Nov 02, 2015 6:24 pm

And yet the comic's biggest problem is exactly when the games have more plot but the comic contradicts it.
User avatar
The KKM
BumbleClan
 
Posts: 4708
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2008 7:40 am
Location: Portugal

Re: Lost Hedgehog Tales

Postby Antiyonder » Mon Nov 02, 2015 6:57 pm

The KKM wrote:And yet the comic's biggest problem is exactly when the games have more plot but the comic contradicts it.


Perhaps, but while I only have hearsay on this, don't the games sometimes contradict themselves as well?
Antiyonder
BumbleCitizen
 
Posts: 293
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2013 1:09 am

Re: Lost Hedgehog Tales

Postby The KKM » Mon Nov 02, 2015 7:09 pm

That's their business to do (which they've been cleaning up for a decade), the point is more that the games are no longer as story-free as 1991. Hard rules ARE needed.
User avatar
The KKM
BumbleClan
 
Posts: 4708
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2008 7:40 am
Location: Portugal

Re: Lost Hedgehog Tales

Postby DudestofGuys » Mon Nov 02, 2015 7:23 pm

The KKM wrote:That's their business to do (which they've been cleaning up for a decade), the point is more that the games are no longer as story-free as 1991. Hard rules ARE needed.


Nah. Some of StC's best stuff would make no sense in a completely by-the-rules Sega Sonic setting.

Just go by what's there and try not to be too contradictory. That's good enough.
DudestofGuys
BumbleFan
 
Posts: 184
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 11:27 am

Re: Lost Hedgehog Tales

Postby Antiyonder » Mon Nov 02, 2015 7:36 pm

The KKM wrote:That's their business to do (which they've been cleaning up for a decade)


I don't dispute their right and need to do so, just that I think they could do so by having more open discussions with the writers.

I think the problem with Penders was arguably not even him having free reign, but that he was more trying to insert his own story into the comicverse, while Flynn is an actual fan of the games and even before the reboot managed to make the comics more like the games.
Antiyonder
BumbleCitizen
 
Posts: 293
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2013 1:09 am

PreviousNext

Return to This Side of Mobius



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests