What are your thoughts on 3D Sonic Games, Post-'06?

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What are your thoughts on 3D Sonic Games, Post-'06?

Postby PeléPelé06 » Sat Oct 24, 2015 11:30 am

This is something I've been thinking about a lot lately.

Skipping the part where I rag on Sonic '06, it's clear that SEGA and Sonic Team felt the need to take the franchise in a drastically different direction after the game's poor critical reception. There have been 4 main-series releases since then (excluding Sonic 4)--Sonic Unleashed (360/PS3), Sonic Colors (Wii), Sonic Generations (360/PS3/PC), and Sonic Lost World (Wii U/PC)--and things certainly have changed. I'm curious to hear others' thoughts on this particular group of Sonic games, anything from favorites and least-favorites to individual elements that you all might want to see reappear in future games. To start off, I'm going to rank the games from best to worst in 3 categories: Best Story, Best Campaign, and Best Overall Experience, and describe my reasoning in a few sentences for each game.

And so, without further ado...

---THE BEST OF 3D SONIC, POST-'06---

--Best Story--
Pretty straightforward, this one's about ranking the games by how enjoyable I found the stories to be, regardless of scale or tone.
Spoiler: show
#1: Sonic Unleashed
Could it have been anything else? I mean, really? Sonic as a franchise is all about adventure, and the adventure doesn't get any bigger than what Unleashed gives us. From the menacing presence of Dark Gaia lurking in the center of the planet to a journey that sees Sonic exploring the entire world, everything about Unleashed's story feels massive in comparison to every other Sonic game. Sonic Team set the bar for a cinema-like experience very high with this one, and no Sonic game released since 2008 has even come close to topping it.

#2: Sonic Lost World
...So. Everything I typed up there about Unleashed? That's fine and all, but I am by no means of the opinion that every Sonic game needs to have a story of similar scope to be considered entertaining, nor do I think that that could even work without something else breaking (games would get repetitive, etc.). Sonic Lost World gives us a story that is simple, fun, introduces entertaining new characters and tries something new with existing ones. And that's fine by me.

#3: Sonic Colors
Eh. I mean, it's basically Sonic 1 with the addition of a couple characters, and Wisps instead of tiny Animals. Simple is fun and all, and I enjoyed Pontac and Graff's take on the main cast here, but there just isn't enough going on (that I haven't already seen) in this one to keep me interested.

#4: Sonic Generations
This one is weird to me because if you compare a written summary of the plot for this game and compare it to one for Colors, more stuff happens, and Generations' cast is more than twice as big, but the overall experience is a lot more hollow. I dunno if I'd consider that a missed opportunity, though, as I feel like the game as a whole is, I think, probably everything it needs to be? The less convoluted, the better!


--Best Campaign--
When I use the term "campaign" here, I'm referring to the gameplay half of the game's Story Mode. In other words, "how much fun is it to play this game from the start of Zone 1 to the end of Zone 7?"
Spoiler: show
#1: Sonic Generations
One thing Generations does get wonderfully right is having a fast-paced, no-nonsense campaign that's also fun the entire time (excluding Time Eater at the end, of course)! The two different gameplay styles here are...different for sure, but the differences between them don't result in a jarring experience, not to mention the fact that many of the people who will play this are used to them from other, previous games. The game does occasionally stop your progress to make you play a short mission or two, but the majority of these are fun, and the game lets you chose the mission that you'd prefer to play in order to proceed. It's also not too long or too short, and the added nostalgia of blasting through re-imagined versions of familiar stages and battles sets it apart from the others in a satisfying way.

#2: Sonic Colors
Taking elements from Unleashed's amazing Daytime stages and adding a healthy dose of 2D platforming, my only issue with Colors' campaign is its length: I would've enjoyed it more if only 2 or 3 of each zone's 6 acts were mandatory, the others being bonuses for later. Usage of the Wisp power-ups is often optional, and even when you must use them, the superb level design ensures that you'll still be having a good time. There's more that I could say about this game, but I'll save it for the next category...

#3: Sonic Lost World
I had a blast with this game. It's easily the most inventive 3D Sonic game out there, thanks to the homage it pays to the Sonic games of the past, as well as some of Nintendo's classics. Speaking of Nintendo, I feel like Colors and Lost World both represent two different aspects of what makes many Nintendo games so amazing: Colors has technical precision and Lost World has that warm, handcrafted charm. All of the game's ideas don't quite hit their marks, but it's a great experience nonetheless.

#4: Sonic Unleashed
I found this to be this game's biggest stumbling block: that getting through the main campaign is such a chore. It's length aside, the fact is that the game having two different gameplay styles that are actually as different as night and day, as an idea, sounds way better than it is in execution. The stark contrast in gameplay between the Werehog and the Hedgehog, in and of itself, wouldn't be as much of an issue if there weren't so much more of the former and it wasn't so much less fun than the latter. Combine that with the game's tendency to stop your progress to make you look for a thing here or a person there and the result is a very disjointed experience that can be very off-putting for first-time players.


--Best Overall Experience--
Another straightforward one, "how much fun do you have playing this game, all things considered." Includes going for all S-Ranks/getting all achievements/collecting all collectibles, etc.
Spoiler: show
#1: Sonic Colors
Oh my god. Sonic Colors is without a doubt THE most fun I have ever had even attempting to 100% a Sonic game, even including the classics. In my mind, this is one of the best Sonic games ever, and the fact that it is so focused on delivering a single, high-quality experience the entire time proves that, no, 3D Sonic games don't need ham-fisted gimmicks or multiple playable characters (as much as we love them) to be great. From the way your encounter with a familiar level completely changes into something different, yet equally fun when you venture to get that Red Star Ring you missed before, to a level of polish we haven't had in anything with Sonic's name on it since the 90's, I don't even care if Sonic Team owes the quality of this game to time spent studying the things their former rivals at Nintendo have pumped out over the years, this is what I crave, give me more.

#2: Sonic Unleashed
Sonic Unleashed is one of those games that is far more enjoyable if you come back to it after already having beaten it once. By this point, you likely remember things like the location of some of the Sun and Moon Medals, shortcuts in the Day stages and solutions to puzzles in the Night stages, and the fact that you should absolutely prioritize maxing out the Werehog's strength, are you crazy. This knowledge derived from past suffering helps smooth out the bumps in the lengthy and disjointed campaign, even if you are working against poor game design choices at this point. Because of the huge game that Unleashed is, there is so much fun to be had even after the campaign is done, like completing the Hot Dog Guy's challenges, and completing other missions given to you by the best hub world-inhabitants in the series' history. No, Unleashed isn't perfect, but it is fun, and benefits greatly from a second chance.

#3: Sonic Generations
Generations has an amazing campaign that makes the game worth playing in it's own right, but that's basically the only thing the game has to offer. Yes there are missions to complete, Red Star Rings to collect and S Ranks to obtain, but those things just feel like toppings on a salad: they make you enjoy it more but don't prevent you from unabashedly going back for a sloppy, drooling cheeseburger.

#4: Sonic Lost World
Lost World may be the last game on my list, but this is a list of games I obviously enjoyed and that I think are good. It's kind of like saying "New Super Mario Bros. 2 is THE ABSOLUTE WORST New Super Mario Bros. game". Sure, but it's still pretty fun, right? My favorite thing about Lost World is that my experience playing it directly mirrored my experience playing Sonic 1 for the first time, being a kid who was introduced to the series with Sonic Adventure. It's not just that it played differently than I was expecting it to, but the specific way that both of these games drop you into this world with a character that you have no idea how to control and a multitude of potential ways to proceed. It's kind of hard to articulate, but I'm not just talking about different paths to the goal, but the way you interact with the paths themselves if that makes any sense. Learning the ins-and-outs of how this new world functions created what I guess I can only describe as the most intimate experience I've had with a Sonic game since completing the original series for the first time.


Anyway, like I said I'd like to hear about what you guys think. There are lots of ways to compare these games that I haven't even touched on, after all.
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Re: What are your thoughts on 3D Sonic Games, Post-'06?

Postby Meliden » Sat Oct 24, 2015 12:01 pm

It's been a mixed bag for me. Only going by console games (and only counting platformers, not the Riders series), this is what I got.

The Positive;

Sonic Unleashed - Unleashed was certainly the most ambitious post-06 3D game, and I can admire it for that. The gameplay all around was fun (I don't mind slower experiences in my Sonic games if I like the gameplay, so I have no issue with the Werehog), the worlds were immersive, the story...kinda plodded in places but could throw out some great moments, yeah overall a nice thing.

Sonic and the Black Knight - It's amazing what simply altering the control can do for a game. It's pretty smooth, and I got stuck in with trying to upgrade all the weapons and get all the unlocks. Story wasn't amazing, I thought it was a bit melodramatic at times (Gawain with Knuckles' visage trying to top himself, what on earth), but it was serviceable.

Sonic Generations - Obviously the story part was a bit barren...okay very barren, but I found there was lot of little things to take note of if you really took notes carefully and dug into the little details. That is the sort of thing I live for so it's right up my alley. Plus the dialogue felt more like Sonic Team were controlling what Pontac and Graff were putting so it's fine from that stance too. And obviously the gameplay is fantastic, really fun, and I felt like the level design was organic (which is important for later).



The Negative;

Sonic and the Secret Rings - It's bad, it's so bad! I'm sorry, you cannot expect me to be willing to put up with a game if it at least doesn't let me have access to decent controls at the start. Combined with the lousy control scheme of holding the Wii-mote sideways, and you bet I rage quit in the first proper level after the tutorial. Then again, story looks about on par Black Knight, maybe less so since Merlina's a better villain than Erazor. Also the structure of the gameplay drives me up a wall, which is weird because I didn't mind it in Black Knight. I think that one might have been better signposted as to what the progression-mandatory missions were, but I'd have to check.

Sonic Colours - The best of the negative I suppose, but it's just mediocre for me. I don't mind the plot being simple at all, but the dialogue can be too cringey even for me, that's not really my kind of humour. But that's a minor issue compared to just how bad the level design and gameplay structure is. Six missions per world drags way too long, even if most of them are short. The stages are basically half open tracks, half platforming sections which feel blocky and not fluid with the level. Also the OST is underwhelming for me, I have to force myself to remember Tropical Resort and Planet Wisp, and that's because they were in other games. I can remember Sweet Mountain, but even that's pretty limp. Weird thing is, I stopped playing the game when I reached Terminal Velocity. I know, it's right before the final boss, but I just didn't have the motivation any more.

Sonic Lost World - Same general issues with Lost World as Colours for story and dialogue. Additions include really not liking Tails' characterisation here (I didn't mind it so much in colours), the Deadly Six being about as entertaining as cardboard with their one-noted-ness (extra mention for Zeena being just terrible) and the shoehorned drama near the end that I guess was supposed to appease complaints that the stories had no stakes, but instead it was just whiplash as to how suddenly it all happened and then got resolved in five seconds so didn't really stick with you. And the gameplay with the parkour is awkward, not helped by the non-parkour controls being twitchy as well. And it also has the similar issue of inorganic level design (although to a lesser extent than Colours, and Silent Forest is overall a shining jewel). After that jewel though, I quit because I knew I was in for a bad time after that.



Not ranking Rise of Lyric because I haven't played it, but from what I can assess of what I've seen I'd say this; gameplay looks naff not because of the core concept (I'm a huge Crash Bandicoot fan, the gameplay is pretty much what Radical did with it, and even the villain motive is similar to concepts of a Crash baddie that didn't make it to the final game[the motive, not the baddie]) but because of the stilted, oversimplified, boring and tedious execution. I struggle to even see let's plays through fully because it's just a load of nothing most of the time. Plus I wouldn't play it because it's Boom.
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Re: What are your thoughts on 3D Sonic Games, Post-'06?

Postby Ian PK » Sat Oct 24, 2015 12:46 pm

I'll go through all of them individually, excluding Lost World, which I haven't played yet.

Sonic Unleashed
If we're talking about the HD version, I haven't played much of this one. And I don't think the Wii version is even worth talking about. But Unleashed is still great fun, even in the werehog stages most of the time. I love the sense of scale it had, and the game probably had the highest budget of any Sonic game ever. However, it's a little irritating that Sonic Team forgot how to make a fast-paced platformer. While all the Day stages are really fun, they have little-to-no platforming. That's relegated to the werehog.... Why? Sonic 2, 3&K, and Adventure 1 all did a great job of combining the breakneck speed of Sonic with platforming elements. However, Unleashed's Sonic is amazingly fast. Playing the day stages is a real experience, and they're all insanely fun. In the end, I guess that's really what's most important.

In terms of story, this is the strongest one to be in a Sonic game in my opinion. SA2 comes close, but the plot holes and weird transition into darkness at the end put its behind Unleashed. Sonic Unleashed has a fantastic story, which makes me kind of sad it's the only one to not be canon in the Nu252 universe. :(hearty laughter):
It strikes the perfect balance of lighthearted adventure, a bit of comedy, and a touch of darkness to make a great Sonic story. It's a shame the writers of this game moved on after this.

Sonic Colors
Sonic Colors, while a great game, brings another clumsy attempt by Sonic Team to make the modern Sonic games more like the classics. Rather than embracing a Genesis-like level design, the stages in Colors are often just slower-paced platforming challenges, and most of the non-Act 1 stages are completely forgettable. Waiting around for moving platforms is something Sonic should've left in his first game. It's still a really good game, and hey, critics actually loved it, calling it Sonic's "comeback", so I like it just for that.

Story-wise, this is the second-best of the "Boost trilogy", since the story gradually got worse as it went. :(hearty laughter):
I love a lot of the jokes, especially "Baldy McNosehair", and the Wisps are pretty cool. Sonic is also more in-character than ever here, being sort of a jerk at times but still with a heart of gold. However, there's not too great of a sense of danger in the story. Eggman is basically planning to kill an entire race to fuel his machines and use mind control on the populace of Sonic's world, but that's not even made too clear and we never get a "oh my god, Eggman's doing WHAT?!?!?" scene. Tails even gets mind-controlled at one point, but it lasts for like five seconds and is completely inconsequential. Still a good story overall.

Sonic Generations
Now this is where boost Sonic hit his stride. Sonic Generations is the only 3D Sonic game where I can completely and totally say that I enjoy every single second of the experience. The Sonic stages in SA1 are a close rival to the ones in Generations, but Adventure is bogged down by fishing and shooting. But Generations? It's all fast-paced platforming fun, from beginning to end. Introducing Classic Sonic was a great way to mix up the gameplay (although actual other characters would still be nice), and every stage is awesome because it's Sonic's greatest hits! I love the missions (even the Vector music note one... you know what I'm talking about), I love collecting all the Red Star Rings, and I especially love trying to beat my best times, mostly on Green Hill Act 2 (which I've completely memorized at this point). This is an amazing game, and is probably overall my favorite Sonic game.

Story? What story?
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Re: What are your thoughts on 3D Sonic Games, Post-'06?

Postby Village » Sat Oct 24, 2015 1:18 pm

Growing increaaingly thematically uninteresting.

The boost gameplay is good. Maybe they should focus on that
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Re: What are your thoughts on 3D Sonic Games, Post-'06?

Postby OncleSam » Sat Oct 24, 2015 1:38 pm

Well it's simple for me :

I absolutely enjoyed Sonic Unleashed, although my first play was on the PS2 version. When I played the 360 version I thought it was awesome, mostly because of the boost gameplay which to me was something that should have been put in place much earlier in the franchise. ( I know, not possible because of the power of the machines at the time ). I have a future negative statement for Sonic Colors that I am going to clear here : Although the game was really long because there are a lot of levels and stuff to collect and complete, it was a bit disappointing to get stuck with only Sonic, even though it was the point of the game, to implement the two new game modes ( boost and werewolf ), I felt that it was a bit of a step back from 06 ( and technically the adventure games ... )

Sonic Colors was really weird to me. 5 acts per level ? What the frak ? Some of these acts felt like effective portions of levels but I didin't understand the need to seperate them into smaller acts. Also the negative point : I feel like Colors was the first Sonic game in which Sega decided to throw away the Story. I mean , no real consistency and the dialogue became too " kid-like " for my taste.

Sonic Generations was awesome for reasons. I was upset about the story. In my head I thought it would have gone way differently and I felt like the White Void was just a pretext to simplify the story to a too big of an extent.

Sonic Lost World was not cool in my opinion. Pressing a button to make Sonic run ? No. Sorry. Not for me. And the story ? Still too kid driven IMO and the Zeti are just ridiculous. Although I think that my be because of the fact that the French voice-acting is just the worst. Meh.
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Re: What are your thoughts on 3D Sonic Games, Post-'06?

Postby FancyFool » Sat Oct 24, 2015 4:39 pm

Sonic Unleashed (HD Version only): I love it! It's one of my top 3 favorite Sonic games and, if you ask me, it's the best Sonic game made in recent times. The graphics are absolutely breathtaking, the music is truly astounding, the settings are very atmospheric and immersive, the plot is among one of the best made (though the middle portions could've used some work), and the gameplay (BOTH of them) were enjoyable and functional (very few bugs, glitches, and control issues). Of course, Unleashed does have its flaws: the sun and moon medals being mandatory to collect is a no-no, the Dark Gaia fight is admittedly frustrating, and while I LIKE the Night Stages and wouldn't call them bad whatsoever, the choice of gameplay is admittedly not a good one. But, for me, those flaws don't prevent Unleashed from being a great game as a whole. Heck, as Vertekins points out many times, Unleashed had the most love and passion put into its creation of any Sonic game, which really shows in all the details of the game, not to mention the existence of "Night of the Werehog" and those three shorts found in-game... Which makes all the bile and hatred Unleashed received upon release and the lowly reception it gets to this day all the more infuriating! I mean, SEGA/Sonic Team pour out their heart and soul into Unleashed and in return they are given all the crap in the world from everyone...

Sonic Colors: Oh boy... I'm going to be blunt, I don't like Sonic Colors. At all. I don't think it's a bad game, persé, but it's the most disappointing Sonic game I have ever played (keep in mind, I never touched Shadow or 06) and I'd be lying if I said Colors isn't in my most disliked list. I wasn't impressed by the gameplay one single bit (especially with its emphasis on blocky 2D platforming) and the plot... The plot itself is merely bland, which I can accept, but then it gets worsened by Sonic's completely obnoxious characterization (https://youtu.be/vNuFnAg-Mes?t=27s WILL YOU JUST SHUT UP AND FIGHT THE DANG THING!? IT'S NOT EVEN TALKING BACK!), mostly horrible dialogue, and riddled with humor that is unbelievable juvenile and not in the least bit funny. There are a few things I like about Colors, but overall I can't bring myself to like Colors itself and I think I'm just going to end my thoughts on Colors here.

Sonic Generations: I quite like Generations. I don't love it as much as Unleashed but I certainly think it's one of the best Sonic games made in recent times. Granted, the only thing that I truly like about Generations is the gameplay. With everything else, it depends... I like that the characters got to appear again and were given mostly good characterizations but at the same time I was very disappointed with how they were handled (being NPCs needing to be saved) and not having many interesting interactions. I like most of the levels but I question the choice of some (of all the levels in Heroes, why Seaside Hill?) and Planet Wisp can kindly burn to the ground. I don't actually mind the relative lack of plot when I first played Generations but it is honestly disappointing that is wasn't something more. I guess for the most part I'm simply indifferent to Generations but I do genuinely think it's one of the better Sonic games released recently.

Not gonna do Lost World since I haven't even touched that game but, from what I've heard and seen, it does NOT sound like something I would like at all.
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Re: What are your thoughts on 3D Sonic Games, Post-'06?

Postby The Swordsman » Sat Oct 24, 2015 6:10 pm

While I like all of these games (though I'm still holding out for the return of Adventure style of games) my thoughts are,

Sonic Unleashed: The last time Sonic Team put in any effort into its story and for that I'm grateful, however out of the four its game play depends on if its day or night, day is always fun but night can be frustrating sometimes.

Sonic Colors: While I hate Pontac and Graff's writing I will admit that Sonic and Eggman got some great lines, game play is solid but it perhaps has too much 2D with little to no 3D sections.

Sonic Generations: This game has the best game play out of the four with a perfect balance of 2D and 3D but the story does not live up to its potential.

Sonic Lost World: The weakest of the four, the story is a mess with Tails out of character and the Zeti being stereotypes and game play feeling too Marioish at times. I do like the return of Sonic animal buddies and the badniks though.
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Re: What are your thoughts on 3D Sonic Games, Post-'06?

Postby Mr.Unsmiley » Sat Oct 24, 2015 8:27 pm

the only one I've actually gotten to play in full is Generations, thanks to it having a PC port. I really love the boost gameplay, even though it's a bit simplistic, it's stimulating in a way that other (non-Sonic) games don't really do, and it sells me on the idea of what Sonic in 3D should be like. I didn't really care about the Classic stages at all, mostly just played them to, ya know, get through the game, but I've seriously replayed the modern stages for dozens of hours.

I've played some of the Colors and Unleashed stages in the form of mods for Generations, but this isn't really the same as actually playing those games for a number of reasons. for one, Colors isn't super fast like Generations and Unleashed (so far as I've heard, anyway), and the Generations mods don't replicate half the Wisp powers, so I've only experienced a facsimile of the actual gameplay (but on the same stages). and also, ya know, I missed out on the actual experience of progressing through the game's storyline and map and so on. Unleashed is fast like Generations, but from what I understand it has stuff you have to level and things you have to collect in order to actually finish the stages, so I still haven't experienced the game as it's meant to be. but, hey, I really like the stages themselves! (and I like the storyline, from watching the cutscenes on youtube).

Lost World I know almost nothing about. I was gonna watch a youtube playthrough but decided against it. I know the storyline, but I know next to nothing about the actual gameplay and stages. I know it's not a boost game and it was trying some drastically different mechanics, but I dont really know what they are. however, as this one is coming to PC soon, I will actually get to experience the full game in the near future, so I guess it's actually good I haven't spoiled it all for myself

so I guess my summation is "I mostly like the current era." I just wish Sega would pump out some more boost games though, and leave aside the secondary gameplay style that Unleashed and Generations are saddled with
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Re: What are your thoughts on 3D Sonic Games, Post-'06?

Postby MeltingMan234 » Sun Oct 25, 2015 12:41 am

Here's my take

Sonic Unleashed - I considered it to be the last best Sonic Game, story was good, the interactions with Robotnik and Orbot (Proto-Orbot as I call him) were amusing, and the gameplay was something different, unlike the genesis games where they just recycled the same thing 4 times in a row (5 if you count Sonic CD) And I'm the only person in the world who liked the Werehog stages more than the day time stages. Hey, I can't help it if I grew up with Crash Bandicoot, Banjo-Kazzoie and other platformer games. Also the day time stages were a bit slippery.

Black Knight - Story and gameplay was ok, still annoyed that after beating Arthur, I didn't realize that there was more. So who knows if I'll ever beat that game 100%

Colors - A Sonic game that I considered to be the worst. The game heavily advertises itself as a "3D Sonic game" when there's barely any 3D elements, 95% of the game is 2D. Aside from that the gameplay is just dull and way to easy, and I'm not talking about that "boost to win" nonsense.And the story is just dreadful, the whole ,ind control thing is only brought up once and leaves no impact or payoff, the characters act like they don't care and aren't taking the situation seriously, and many other things that I could rant about. I have a flaming hatred against Pontac and Graff on what they've been doing with Sonic in the games, mostly considering the fact that they barely did any research and have no interest in the franchise.

Generations - A game that could've been great... but it came out very average. The story is rushed, the gameplay is rushed and well everything about this game is rushed.Why couldn't Robotnik simply use the Time Eater to go back to the past and kill off Past Sonic so that it would create an alternate timeline where Robotnik was the supreme ruler and such? Would've been a cool alternate ending if you didn't collect all of the Chaos Emeralds, unlike in the final game where you're forced to get all the emeralds to see the ending. Clearly SEGA needs to take some lessons from Back to the Future and such. Gameplay wise hasn't really changed, it's just them recycling Colors gameplay so the modern sonic stages don't feel like Modern sonic stages, at all. Also gotta love how SEGA said that the 3DS version would feature levels from sonic handheld games and yet the only level we got was Water Palace from Sonic Rush, the rest are from console games. When I think of handheld sonic games, I think of games EXCLUSIVE to handhelds, you know: Sonic Triple Trouble, Sonic Rush, Sonic Rivals, Battle, etc. Overall, this is a game that could've been much better

Lost World - While I haven't played the game (and I never will) I've seen a good amount of cutscenes from the game so I can only criticize it from a story perspective... and it's a train wreck. The Deadly 6 are some of the most forgettable characters for their stale personalities, Tails is completely out of character, and the ending with Robotnik coming back in that mech suit was just awful. At this point I already called it quits on the games after Colors and Generations and only follow the Archie Sonic comics.

Sonic Boom - A game that looked good, but executed very poorly. What looked like the return of a proper adventure sonic game, became something that downgraded the series to a very young audience. I never bothered playing the games and I've only watched some episodes of the TV show, read the first issue of the short lived comics, and I don't like them. One of the main reasons was that they stated that it would re-introduce the franchise when there really isn't a re-introduction. We don't get enough time to know who these characters are, no backstory, the episodes are either too slow paced, too fast paced, or just flat out forgettable, characters are written very lazily like Sonic taking naps rather than running or doing anything, and so on and so on. We're just thrown into the middle of the action and have to automatically know who these characters are, where they live, etc.

So that's my thoughts on Legacy Sonic, feels like SEGA is too scared to make a proper 3D Sonic game nowadays. And yes I read that article from SEGA stating that they still call them Modern Sonic and Boom Sonic, but I'm not really believing it simply because SEGA's been too focused on Sonic Boom in being the Modern thing rather their main series/Legacy Sonic. And no, Sonic Runners doesn't count. Not really a Mobile Phone Gamer anyway, I prefer to use my hard earn cash to buy a game, then unlock most of its content for free through trial and error, rather than having to pay for everything or just to continue the game in those mobile phone games.
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Re: What are your thoughts on 3D Sonic Games, Post-'06?

Postby MetalSkulkBane » Sun Oct 25, 2015 8:04 am

Sigh, if only this was about Adventure-06 period I would have to say a lot, but due to many factor I will mostly comment on stories

Secret Rings: Never played it, but from what I heard no one really likes gameplay. I mean, seriously, you can unlock better controls?
Story wise it isn't bad, with cool visuals, good Sonic characterization and overall being different. My biggest problem is character that I really hate...Shahra. That's right, I hate her. More then Elise, Chris, Omochao or any other Sonic character. Not because she annoying or anything, but because she's a friccking back stabber. She asks Sonic for help, he almost literally takes a bullet for her, and how she repays? By giving Rings to Erazor. And it would be fine if she was really evil (like Fiona) or had good intentions (Merlina), but the truth is she has a weak spine. Fact that she later saves Sonic only proves that she can't even stick to her own decision (and later she even dares to cry over her abusive boyfriend). Maybe if game fleshed out Erazor more I would understand why she would side with him, but as it is, I have no respect for her.

Unleashed (HD): I played a little but never finished. Day stages are fun (if not a little to fast), night just mediocre. What really annoys me are hub worlds and medal collecting. Those are sooooo annoying. Especially HUB. Ok, it was pointless in SA1, but it gave a feeling of adventure, plus was small and easy to navigate (we even could see Eggman's room, how cool is that?). Here, it's a draaag.
Story wise is good, but I never felt like it's a gem. First cutscene is really cool and I like Sonic/Chip friendship. I was sure he's going to be annoying, but he's surprisingly likable. He loves food, but always shares his chocolate, tried to cheer up Sonic about his look, over all was nice guy.

Black Knight: Never played, but I do like a story (last good story in Sonic IMHO). I like art style, plot twist adds a little flavor, Excalibur Sonic looks cool and lesson about living life to the fullest really fits into Sonic personality. They even gave a little role to Shadow, Knuckles and Blaze which is a nice touch. Finally the music. Four awesome songs from Crush 40. How can you not love it?

Colors: I own it, but didn't play it. Story is...sigh. It's just a comedy, you either like the jokes or not, there is nothing more. There were some funny jokes (like everything about Eggman, especially his background talk in levels), but most Sonic-Tails interactions were cringe worthy.

Generations: I played it and I love it, I love it, I love it. Speed, platforming, controls, graphics, bosses (...okay, Rival bosses+ Chaos). The only problem is how small this game is. Little to do after beating the game, no extra playable characters, not even a theme song. But I guess it better to have little good than giant bad like 06.
Sadly story is part of "small", there is barely any. Eggman is a little entertaining, but that's all.

Lost World: I only played demo o 3DS and it didn't impressed me.
Story wise...I'll start with positives: i like when Eggman shames monitor and I expected Deadly Six to be much worse. Rest is just meh. Eggman team-up is wasted, plot twist obvious, cameos from Amy & Knux more annoying than cool and whole sub plot about Sonic/Tails just feels forced.

Rise of Lyric:...I'm not touching that game. With 06 it's obvious that they wanted to make this game huge and epic, but that back fired. Plus at least they gave us Mephiles, Silver, etc. This game? This just looks like a train wreck.
Story wise... same level as Lost World. Lyric is boring villain, jokes are weak,. It does horrible job to justify reboot and what was even the point of time travel? It's done once and never again. Shadow is completely pointless and done in a wrong way. Only good parts are as always Eggman and it was nice to see Metal in a actual cut scene.
Last edited by MetalSkulkBane on Sun Oct 25, 2015 12:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What are your thoughts on 3D Sonic Games, Post-'06?

Postby Mordum » Sun Oct 25, 2015 8:38 am

MetalSkulkBane wrote:Not because she annoying or anything, but because she's a friccking back stabber. She asks Sonic for help, he almost literally takes a bullet for her, and how she repays? By giving Rings to Erazor. And it would be fine if she was really evil (like Fiona) or had good intentions (Merlina), but the truth is she has a weak spine. Fact that she later saves Sonic only proves that she can't even stick to her own decision (and later she even dares to cry over her abusive boyfriend).


So you hate a character for her personality flaws, and then hate her more for overcoming those flaws.

I'm pretty sure you're just a person with incredibly unfair standards.
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Re: What are your thoughts on 3D Sonic Games, Post-'06?

Postby MetalSkulkBane » Sun Oct 25, 2015 9:55 am

Mordum wrote:
MetalSkulkBane wrote:Not because she annoying or anything, but because she's a friccking back stabber. She asks Sonic for help, he almost literally takes a bullet for her, and how she repays? By giving Rings to Erazor. And it would be fine if she was really evil (like Fiona) or had good intentions (Merlina), but the truth is she has a weak spine. Fact that she later saves Sonic only proves that she can't even stick to her own decision (and later she even dares to cry over her abusive boyfriend).


So you hate a character for her personality flaws, and then hate her more for overcoming those flaws.

I'm pretty sure you're just a person with incredibly unfair standards.

I'm probably being unfair to Shara, but 'overcoming' doesn't speak to me. What if Erazor didn't need living sacrifice? Would she let him destroy all stories and rule the world?
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Re: What are your thoughts on 3D Sonic Games, Post-'06?

Postby PeléPelé06 » Sun Oct 25, 2015 11:37 am

Meliden wrote:
Spoiler: show
It's been a mixed bag for me. Only going by console games (and only counting platformers, not the Riders series), this is what I got.

The Positive;

Sonic Unleashed - Unleashed was certainly the most ambitious post-06 3D game, and I can admire it for that. The gameplay all around was fun (I don't mind slower experiences in my Sonic games if I like the gameplay, so I have no issue with the Werehog), the worlds were immersive, the story...kinda plodded in places but could throw out some great moments, yeah overall a nice thing.

Sonic and the Black Knight - It's amazing what simply altering the control can do for a game. It's pretty smooth, and I got stuck in with trying to upgrade all the weapons and get all the unlocks. Story wasn't amazing, I thought it was a bit melodramatic at times (Gawain with Knuckles' visage trying to top himself, what on earth), but it was serviceable.

Sonic Generations - Obviously the story part was a bit barren...okay very barren, but I found there was lot of little things to take note of if you really took notes carefully and dug into the little details. That is the sort of thing I live for so it's right up my alley. Plus the dialogue felt more like Sonic Team were controlling what Pontac and Graff were putting so it's fine from that stance too. And obviously the gameplay is fantastic, really fun, and I felt like the level design was organic (which is important for later).



The Negative;

Sonic and the Secret Rings - It's bad, it's so bad! I'm sorry, you cannot expect me to be willing to put up with a game if it at least doesn't let me have access to decent controls at the start. Combined with the lousy control scheme of holding the Wii-mote sideways, and you bet I rage quit in the first proper level after the tutorial. Then again, story looks about on par Black Knight, maybe less so since Merlina's a better villain than Erazor. Also the structure of the gameplay drives me up a wall, which is weird because I didn't mind it in Black Knight. I think that one might have been better signposted as to what the progression-mandatory missions were, but I'd have to check.

Sonic Colours - The best of the negative I suppose, but it's just mediocre for me. I don't mind the plot being simple at all, but the dialogue can be too cringey even for me, that's not really my kind of humour. But that's a minor issue compared to just how bad the level design and gameplay structure is. Six missions per world drags way too long, even if most of them are short. The stages are basically half open tracks, half platforming sections which feel blocky and not fluid with the level. Also the OST is underwhelming for me, I have to force myself to remember Tropical Resort and Planet Wisp, and that's because they were in other games. I can remember Sweet Mountain, but even that's pretty limp. Weird thing is, I stopped playing the game when I reached Terminal Velocity. I know, it's right before the final boss, but I just didn't have the motivation any more.

Sonic Lost World - Same general issues with Lost World as Colours for story and dialogue. Additions include really not liking Tails' characterisation here (I didn't mind it so much in colours), the Deadly Six being about as entertaining as cardboard with their one-noted-ness (extra mention for Zeena being just terrible) and the shoehorned drama near the end that I guess was supposed to appease complaints that the stories had no stakes, but instead it was just whiplash as to how suddenly it all happened and then got resolved in five seconds so didn't really stick with you. And the gameplay with the parkour is awkward, not helped by the non-parkour controls being twitchy as well. And it also has the similar issue of inorganic level design (although to a lesser extent than Colours, and Silent Forest is overall a shining jewel). After that jewel though, I quit because I knew I was in for a bad time after that.



Not ranking Rise of Lyric because I haven't played it, but from what I can assess of what I've seen I'd say this; gameplay looks naff not because of the core concept (I'm a huge Crash Bandicoot fan, the gameplay is pretty much what Radical did with it, and even the villain motive is similar to concepts of a Crash baddie that didn't make it to the final game[the motive, not the baddie]) but because of the stilted, oversimplified, boring and tedious execution. I struggle to even see let's plays through fully because it's just a load of nothing most of the time. Plus I wouldn't play it because it's Boom.
I was trying to steer things more towards the 4 games I mentioned, but I definitely agree that Black Knight is the better of the two Storybook games just based on controls alone (still haven't gotten past the first area in Secret Rings, I'll get around to it someday :x ).

You're not alone with having those moments while playing a Sonic game where you need to just stop, though. I think that happened to me a few times during my first playthrough of Unleashed. Because I'm a huge sucker for anything with Sonic's name on it--even the not-so-good stuff--I honestly can't say that there would ever be a time where I wouldn't plan to come back and finish at least the main campaign of a given game. I'm not going to suggest anybody waste their time with something they know they won't enjoy, but I will say that after getting past that hurdle I started to like Unleashed a lot more.

I keep hearing people say that Lost World has "glitchy controls", but I can't say I've ever come across that, myself. I don't know if it's people not understanding the nuances of the controls (which I totally get) or that they played the game's first build (the one where you didn't get an extra life after collecting 100 Rings or something) and just had a slightly different experience than me.
OncleSam wrote:
Spoiler: show
Well it's simple for me :

I absolutely enjoyed Sonic Unleashed, although my first play was on the PS2 version. When I played the 360 version I thought it was awesome, mostly because of the boost gameplay which to me was something that should have been put in place much earlier in the franchise. ( I know, not possible because of the power of the machines at the time ). I have a future negative statement for Sonic Colors that I am going to clear here : Although the game was really long because there are a lot of levels and stuff to collect and complete, it was a bit disappointing to get stuck with only Sonic, even though it was the point of the game, to implement the two new game modes ( boost and werewolf ), I felt that it was a bit of a step back from 06 ( and technically the adventure games ... )

Sonic Colors was really weird to me. 5 acts per level ? What the frak ? Some of these acts felt like effective portions of levels but I didin't understand the need to seperate them into smaller acts. Also the negative point : I feel like Colors was the first Sonic game in which Sega decided to throw away the Story. I mean , no real consistency and the dialogue became too " kid-like " for my taste.

Sonic Generations was awesome for reasons. I was upset about the story. In my head I thought it would have gone way differently and I felt like the White Void was just a pretext to simplify the story to a too big of an extent.

Sonic Lost World was not cool in my opinion. Pressing a button to make Sonic run ? No. Sorry. Not for me. And the story ? Still too kid driven IMO and the Zeti are just ridiculous. Although I think that my be because of the fact that the French voice-acting is just the worst. Meh.
Not sure I agree with that. I would've loved it if Tails was playable, but I don't feel like not having other playable characters is regressing. Maybe if we're talking about something like Sonic 4, or if Sonic Adventure 3 ever happens and you can only play as Sonic, then sure.
FancyFool wrote:
Spoiler: show
Sonic Unleashed (HD Version only): I love it! It's one of my top 3 favorite Sonic games and, if you ask me, it's the best Sonic game made in recent times. The graphics are absolutely breathtaking, the music is truly astounding, the settings are very atmospheric and immersive, the plot is among one of the best made (though the middle portions could've used some work), and the gameplay (BOTH of them) were enjoyable and functional (very few bugs, glitches, and control issues). Of course, Unleashed does have its flaws: the sun and moon medals being mandatory to collect is a no-no, the Dark Gaia fight is admittedly frustrating, and while I LIKE the Night Stages and wouldn't call them bad whatsoever, the choice of gameplay is admittedly not a good one. But, for me, those flaws don't prevent Unleashed from being a great game as a whole. Heck, as Vertekins points out many times, Unleashed had the most love and passion put into its creation of any Sonic game, which really shows in all the details of the game, not to mention the existence of "Night of the Werehog" and those three shorts found in-game... Which makes all the bile and hatred Unleashed received upon release and the lowly reception it gets to this day all the more infuriating! I mean, SEGA/Sonic Team pour out their heart and soul into Unleashed and in return they are given all the crap in the world from everyone...

Sonic Colors: Oh boy... I'm going to be blunt, I don't like Sonic Colors. At all. I don't think it's a bad game, persé, but it's the most disappointing Sonic game I have ever played (keep in mind, I never touched Shadow or 06) and I'd be lying if I said Colors isn't in my most disliked list. I wasn't impressed by the gameplay one single bit (especially with its emphasis on blocky 2D platforming) and the plot... The plot itself is merely bland, which I can accept, but then it gets worsened by Sonic's completely obnoxious characterization (https://youtu.be/vNuFnAg-Mes?t=27s WILL YOU JUST SHUT UP AND FIGHT THE DANG THING!? IT'S NOT EVEN TALKING BACK!), mostly horrible dialogue, and riddled with humor that is unbelievable juvenile and not in the least bit funny. There are a few things I like about Colors, but overall I can't bring myself to like Colors itself and I think I'm just going to end my thoughts on Colors here.

Sonic Generations: I quite like Generations. I don't love it as much as Unleashed but I certainly think it's one of the best Sonic games made in recent times. Granted, the only thing that I truly like about Generations is the gameplay. With everything else, it depends... I like that the characters got to appear again and were given mostly good characterizations but at the same time I was very disappointed with how they were handled (being NPCs needing to be saved) and not having many interesting interactions. I like most of the levels but I question the choice of some (of all the levels in Heroes, why Seaside Hill?) and Planet Wisp can kindly burn to the ground. I don't actually mind the relative lack of plot when I first played Generations but it is honestly disappointing that is wasn't something more. I guess for the most part I'm simply indifferent to Generations but I do genuinely think it's one of the better Sonic games released recently.

Not gonna do Lost World since I haven't even touched that game but, from what I've heard and seen, it does NOT sound like something I would like at all.
This so much. I don't think every game needs quite that much put into it, but I'd be down for a game of Unleashed-scope every 5th anniversary or so.
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Re: What are your thoughts on 3D Sonic Games, Post-'06?

Postby Tylinos » Sun Oct 25, 2015 1:09 pm

Sonic and the Secret Rings: Early on, before you've majorly upgraded Sonic, the gameplay is absolutely maddening. I would never want to put anyone through playing this game pre-upgrades. After upgrading him enough, though, it becomes fairly decent. Still not what I'd call particularly fun, sure, but decent. The story existed. I wasn't a fan of it, but it was the least of my problems.

Unleashed (HD): Daytime gameplay was flawed, but fun. It's the kind of thing where I'd be going "Man, I'm really enjoying th-- oh there's another awkwardly placed jump/enemy/turn/obstacle. Why did they put that there? It just feels weird." Nighttime gameplay worked, but wasn't very engaging. Walk forward, standard battle. Walk forward, platforming, standard battle. Walk forward, miniboss that's basically a normal enemy with a huge hitbox and a ton of health. As for story, it was enjoyable. Griffith even gave a performance I quite liked. He improved over the years, but it's a shame that the first performance of his that I could really give a thumbs up to was his second-to-last.

Black Knight: The gameplay was... Well, it was solid and working. There was technically nothing wrong with it. And yet, even moreso than nighttime Unleashed, it was just so boring and forgettable. It was so average and simply competent that I couldn't get myself to have much fun. Story was fine, but not much of it really left any lasting impression. (Also, I love the final boss theme, With Me, a lot more than I should have any reason to.)

Colors/Colours: I love this game. I'm surprised to see so much hate for it in this thread, because elsewhere I only ever see praise for it. The gameplay feels to me like the natural progression of Unleashed HD's daytime gameplay. It keeps what works, fixes most of the problems with what didn't, and adds some interesting new power-ups which it uses well. The environments and music (save for Asteroid Coaster in both cases) were fantastic. The story itself wasn't much to write home about, but I enjoyed most of the dialogue.

Generations: Generations feels to me like Colors with slightly less focus to it. The gameplay is very solid and enjoyable, but some small thing felt missing which Colors wasn't missing, and I can't really put my finger on it. The story is barely there, but it didn't bother me.

Lost World: This game was just the essence of missed potential, distilled onto a disc. There were a hundred new and interesting ideas, but less than a dozen worked. It always felt like two steps forward, twenty steps back. I wanted to like it, but the game just kept annoying me. As for the story, it was bleh. I didn't really care for it.

Rise of Lyric: Avoided. Don't intend to play.
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Re: What are your thoughts on 3D Sonic Games, Post-'06?

Postby therealfalconpawnch7 » Sun Oct 25, 2015 1:34 pm

Sonic and the Secret Rings: Game is flawed beyond belief in so many ways, the control is terrible, the upgrade system is annoying, the mission progression is flawed in not telling you what you need to do in order to get the actual ending (Hello Egg Mission). Story was Meh, Erazer was fine until he went monster, music was kinda bland and ingrains for all the wrong reasons.
Sonic Unleashed (Wii): Played two levels then left. Didn't hold my interest gameplay wise.
Sonic Unleashed (360) : Fun Gameplay, Solid Story, Great Musical pieces, and brilliant Character design. Loved running through the day stages, loved going through the Night Stages (Once you get the hang of things it's not that bad. Eggmanland is not the worst thing ever, and if you take time to vary your combos none of the enemies should give you too much of a hassle) and I still do to this day.
Sonic and the Black Knight: Let's just post the Unleashed Positives here and change them to fit the game. Loved this one as well.
Sonic Colors: What went wrong? While a solid platformer, the thing just wasn't Sonic. The Whisps felt forced into the gameplay as the transition when using them were never smooth, often halting you in your tracks for a second (Score 1 Runners) and the level design felt way too Sonic 1/Mario for me to get any real enjoyment out of it. Also way too much 2D.
Sonic Generations: Gameplay is fine, Story is bad, Music is Legendary (But only because it's songs I already like)
Sonic Lost World: UGH! Story is bad, Gameplay is bare bones basic and doesn't go anywhere near fast enough, Deadly Six are pathetic wastes of Data Space and should have just been Eggman boss fights. It's just mind boggling how bad this was.
Sonic Boom Rise of Lyric: Going to be complete on the opposite side of the fence but I actually like this game. Does it have problems? Yes. Are they distracting me from having fun? No, for me at least. I can get behind the attempt that was made and say, you tried at least, I'll play your game. Multiple Characters to play as, a story that tried to be more than a bunch of stand up routines with levels in between, character banter and great jokes. The only problem I have is that it got gutted as bad as it did.
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