Not reaching the goal ring...

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Re: Not reaching the goal ring...

Postby Meliden » Fri Oct 16, 2015 3:58 pm

And Summer of Sonic is definite proof that AoStH endured in the UK. It had regular jokes about the SSSSS (I think one of the years they even made Scratch and Grounder masks for some guess who thing) and the most fondly remembered cosplayer was a guy who went as Wes Weasley most of the later years it was on.
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Re: Not reaching the goal ring...

Postby Mordum » Fri Oct 16, 2015 4:47 pm

Vampfox wrote:
Meliden wrote:That definitely wasn't the case in Europe, AoStH is far more well remembered there. And I wouldn't be surprised if AoStH was the one that was more remembered over the years in America as well. SatAM was seen as the cool thing a the time in NA, but it's AoStH that sticks in the mind and would likely last with fans and non-fans alike.

Maybe but then tell me why does Satam have two fan sites(Saturday Morning Sonic and FUS)where as AOSTH has zero fan sites?


Because Satam fans ask why maturity in Sonic isn't possible when people make comments on story structure that have nothing to do with maturity.
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Re: Not reaching the goal ring...

Postby BlazeHeatnix » Fri Oct 16, 2015 4:51 pm

The KKM wrote:Since you're having fun posting and responding with incendiary posts that have literally nothing to do with what was posted


How does it not have to do what what was posted? I literally responded to

Toby wrote:That's weird. I seem to remember him acting quite childish and goofy in the first game. Fleeing from Sonic in Labyrinth Zone because he wasn't ready yet, giggling as he sent Sonic falling to Scrap Brain Act 3. Throwing a colossal temper tantrum when you collect the emeralds.
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Re: Not reaching the goal ring...

Postby WiNTER BELLS » Fri Oct 16, 2015 7:00 pm

Meliden wrote:That definitely wasn't the case in Europe, AoStH is far more well remembered there. And I wouldn't be surprised if AoStH was the one that was more remembered over the years in America as well. SatAM was seen as the cool thing a the time in NA, but it's AoStH that sticks in the mind and would likely last with fans and non-fans alike.

AoSTH was a very odd approach to animation in general... I feel that's why we remember it so vividly in comparison. However, I firmly believe that SatAM translates FAR better than AoSTH across generations...
I should note that I feel feel like AoSTH was complete and utter trash... but "One man's trash" I suppose...

As for the topic...
akessel92 wrote:The freedom fighters are not challenged as individuals and have no goals of their own. Also, the past and concepts are not explored further but rather just acknowledges that it exists. He stressed that the story is aimless.
I couldn't agree more. The primary reason why I was, and still am, for the whole SonXSally subject was because it brought interesting conflicts to the characters. Yes, it got out of hand a lot. No, I'm not saying we should have arcs dedicated to it. But it did give Sonic a dimension outside of "Cocky Hero". Just to clarify, I'm not saying Sonic needs a relationship, heck I don't care if he never gets paired up, but watching the FF go from point A to B "fixing problems" between the issues of 252 and 271 (This is about as current as I am) them moving on has been an absolute bore for me...

As for the "past" of this series, if you can call it that, I've been crossing my fingers for some sort of closure for awhile now. I've not read anything post Worlds Unite, but I'm crossing my fingers that when I eventually delve into it that some of these problems get addressed.
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Re: Not reaching the goal ring...

Postby Meliden » Fri Oct 16, 2015 7:08 pm

WiNTER BELLS wrote:
Meliden wrote:That definitely wasn't the case in Europe, AoStH is far more well remembered there. And I wouldn't be surprised if AoStH was the one that was more remembered over the years in America as well. SatAM was seen as the cool thing a the time in NA, but it's AoStH that sticks in the mind and would likely last with fans and non-fans alike.

AoSTH was a very odd approach to animation in general... I feel that's why we remember it so vividly in comparison. However, I firmly believe that SatAM translates FAR better than AoSTH across generations...
I should note that I feel feel like AoSTH was complete and utter trash... but "One man's trash" I suppose...


Looking at the production process for both series, AoStH had far more planning and method put into it. SatAM was basically a different show entirely before it got Sonic slapped onto it. AoStH had a style it definitely wanted to homage (that being the slapstick shenanigans of Looney Tunes and their ilk, and that's translated across generations more than most cartoons), and worked better to integrate Sonic into that style rather than just be a generic show with Sonic's face on it.
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Re: Not reaching the goal ring...

Postby Vampfox » Fri Oct 16, 2015 7:15 pm

Meliden wrote: SatAM was basically a different show entirely before it got Sonic slapped onto it.

Source please.
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Re: Not reaching the goal ring...

Postby Meliden » Fri Oct 16, 2015 7:21 pm

There's various pieces of very early SatAM production art floating around, which includes a (few) human Sally, Looney Tunes-ish Bunnie, human Antoine and a Walrus as an animal mascot sidekick thing. And also a piece labelled as Dr Robotnic (no, didn't spell it wrong, that's what's on the piece), when it looks more like Ganon than anything, green skin, horns, wizard robe and all.

It'd take a while to track it all down because I think it's dispersed in different places, but that stuff is seriously nuts.
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Re: Not reaching the goal ring...

Postby Tylinos » Fri Oct 16, 2015 7:26 pm

Or you could link somewhere that has it all in one place.

https://info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_the_H ... evelopment
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Re: Not reaching the goal ring...

Postby Meliden » Fri Oct 16, 2015 7:29 pm

I didn't know Sonic Retro had collated it to be honest. That's not one of my hang outs.

Actually, I think it's still missing a few of the pieces, I remember there being more than that.
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Re: Not reaching the goal ring...

Postby Vampfox » Fri Oct 16, 2015 7:35 pm

I've seen some of those before but they still don't convice me that Satam started as it's own show before becoming a Sonic cartoon.

Video games were not nearly as mainstream back then as they are now so Dic might not have known a lot about Sonic. Just look at what they did to Bowser in the Mario cartoons.

It just seems like a lot of Satam haters want to try and throw the show under the bus.
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Re: Not reaching the goal ring...

Postby Tylinos » Fri Oct 16, 2015 7:41 pm

Vampfox wrote:It just seems like a lot of Satam haters want to try and throw the show under the bus.

Meliden was just saying AoStH felt like it had more planning put into it, and that SatAM felt like a generic show with Sonic put on top of it, not that it was terrible. Heck, I enjoyed SatAM, and I can still easily agree that it felt like a generic show with Sonic put on top of it. That isn't necessarily a bad thing.
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Re: Not reaching the goal ring...

Postby Vampfox » Fri Oct 16, 2015 7:46 pm

Tylinos wrote:
Vampfox wrote:It just seems like a lot of Satam haters want to try and throw the show under the bus.

Meliden was just saying AoStH felt like it had more planning put into it, and that it felt like a generic show with Sonic put on top of it, not that it was terrible. Heck, I enjoyed SatAM, and I can still easily agree that it felt like a generic show with Sonic put on top of it. That isn't necessarily a bad thing.

I probably should have been more clear. I was not saying that Meliden was trying to insult Satam.
I just don't believe that those early character drawings are proof that Satam was originally meant to be it's own cartoon.
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Re: Not reaching the goal ring...

Postby Tylinos » Fri Oct 16, 2015 8:01 pm

Vampfox wrote:I just don't believe that those early character drawings are proof that Satam was originally meant to be it's own cartoon.

Yeah, that I can agree with. They're definitely weird concepts that feel a lot different than what we got (especially with Ganonbotnic there), but unless there's an interview or something that says SatAM wasn't originally designed with Sonic in mind, they don't prove much. Still interesting to see them, though.
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Re: Not reaching the goal ring...

Postby WiNTER BELLS » Fri Oct 16, 2015 8:35 pm

Meliden wrote:Looking at the production process for both series, AoStH had far more planning and method put into it. SatAM was basically a different show entirely before it got Sonic slapped onto it. AoStH had a style it definitely wanted to homage (that being the slapstick shenanigans of Looney Tunes and their ilk, and that's translated across generations more than most cartoons), and worked better to integrate Sonic into that style rather than just be a generic show with Sonic's face on it.

More planning doesn't necessarily mean a better quality production.
Also, perhaps it's simply bias talking, but Looney Tunes seemed to have better thought out humor, especially in it's dialogue and interactions with it's own cast, than AoSTH which seemed to mainly consist of continuous slapstick that progressed until the episode was over.
I remember more of the Looney Tunens than AoSTH, but then again I actually liked the Looney Tunes.
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Re: Not reaching the goal ring...

Postby akessel92 » Fri Oct 16, 2015 8:55 pm

WiNTER BELLS wrote:
Meliden wrote:That definitely wasn't the case in Europe, AoStH is far more well remembered there. And I wouldn't be surprised if AoStH was the one that was more remembered over the years in America as well. SatAM was seen as the cool thing a the time in NA, but it's AoStH that sticks in the mind and would likely last with fans and non-fans alike.

AoSTH was a very odd approach to animation in general... I feel that's why we remember it so vividly in comparison. However, I firmly believe that SatAM translates FAR better than AoSTH across generations...
I should note that I feel feel like AoSTH was complete and utter trash... but "One man's trash" I suppose...

As for the topic...
akessel92 wrote:The freedom fighters are not challenged as individuals and have no goals of their own. Also, the past and concepts are not explored further but rather just acknowledges that it exists. He stressed that the story is aimless.
I couldn't agree more. The primary reason why I was, and still am, for the whole SonXSally subject was because it brought interesting conflicts to the characters. Yes, it got out of hand a lot. No, I'm not saying we should have arcs dedicated to it. But it did give Sonic a dimension outside of "Cocky Hero". Just to clarify, I'm not saying Sonic needs a relationship, heck I don't care if he never gets paired up, but watching the FF go from point A to B "fixing problems" between the issues of 252 and 271 (This is about as current as I am) them moving on has been an absolute bore for me...

As for the "past" of this series, if you can call it that, I've been crossing my fingers for some sort of closure for awhile now. I've not read anything post Worlds Unite, but I'm crossing my fingers that when I eventually delve into it that some of these problems get addressed.

Well I wanna say spark of life, and the coming back up stories for 277 to 279 will have those but, spark of life was more of ellidy dealing things and not Sally nor Nicole.

Edit: though I wonder how those above will respond? Well, because boy do I feel like I'm scheduled for a reckoning.
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