Not reaching the goal ring...

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Not reaching the goal ring...

Postby akessel92 » Thu Oct 15, 2015 10:17 pm

I had a conversation with a fellow bumblemember outside and he brought a few points that really make me question Ian's writing. What he said was that there is no thesis statement to this comic. No aim to the story. The freedom fighters are not challenged as individuals and have no goals of their own. Also, the past and concepts are not explored further but rather just acknowledges that it exists. He stressed that the story is aimless. Granted the pacing is in many places, but it's not a disciplined March but a stampede as story pacing goes. All these concepts unfocused and uncared for driving headlong.

I guess this why some fans (even once dear friends) who now left the comic feel that the reboot has done nothing but route the quality and the integrity this comic series had and the massacre of their childhoods. Granted the last part maybe overdramatize but a good number feel that way.
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Re: Not reaching the goal ring...

Postby Mavrickindigo » Thu Oct 15, 2015 10:46 pm

AFter Worlds Unite, I think there's a chance for the comic to pick itself up again. It seemd pretty bogged down by editorial mandates by the end of it, and, at least right now, the current editor seems to be letting things go the course without pushing things. Who knows, maybe arcs wont' be constrained to four issues after awhile, either? Probably not the case for SOnic Universe, but maybe the main comic will have more freedom?
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Re: Not reaching the goal ring...

Postby BlazeHeatnix » Thu Oct 15, 2015 11:00 pm

I'm so tired of pre vs pro reboot debates. Just stop. Stop.
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Re: Not reaching the goal ring...

Postby Penguin God » Thu Oct 15, 2015 11:01 pm

It's a kids' action/adventure story about Sonic the Hedgehog, super fast blue hedgehog who gets into scraps with Dr. Eggman, mad scientist manchild. That's the thesis statement. It's a serialized ongoing adventure book, of course it's not always going to be some steady march towards a single goal. It never did.
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Re: Not reaching the goal ring...

Postby Mobotropolis » Thu Oct 15, 2015 11:05 pm

I'd argue that the same could be said for the Sonic Franchise as a whole.

It's Sonic and his assortment of friends having adventures with Eggman serving as a force of semi-resistance. This statement applies to almost every incarnation of the Sonic series. The only real goal of it all is for Sonic and Friends to emerge victorious against the threat of the day as expected and mandated. In that sense it isn't only a problem with Ian or the writing but a concern with the series as a whole.

A valid one? Not sure. The Mario Series is immensely successful and mostly aimless. The Kirby Series is also notable for being a near-utopia where the characters only do things reactively before going back to doing nothing notable.

Moving onto the book. Note that I am talking post-reboot.

I believe some of his comments have merit. The Freedom Fighters don't appear to have much of a life outside of their fight for freedom. Moreso now than before the reboot are they members of a team meant to serve a specific purpose and not much else. I do hope that things get fleshed out a bit after the Shattered World Crisis is over -- but now we're reaching the three year mark and it's not doing much but affirming my opinion.

I also agree that there seems to be a power imbalance in the book. Specifically, that the side of evil is wholly under-powered and ill-equipped to handle the Freedom Fighters. Eggman has twelve armies and the best they can do is inconvenience them slightly. Eclipse is close to a challenge but was nearly killed and barely escaped in his first appearance. Again, I hope that this is something that will be fixed once Shattered World Crisis is over.

I think a sore point for many people is that there is hope for improvement " after Shattered World Crisis is over " but we still have about another year before we see the end of the tunnel. It seems a growing number are tired of waiting.
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Re: Not reaching the goal ring...

Postby Tylinos » Thu Oct 15, 2015 11:45 pm

Mobotropolis wrote:The only real goal of it all is for Sonic and Friends to emerge victorious against the threat of the day as expected and mandated. In that sense it isn't only a problem with Ian or the writing but a concern with the series as a whole.

This. It's how it was for the series pre-reboot as well. Eggman's trying to take over the world and do villainous things along the way, and Sonic and co. have to stop him. Apart from the brief stint after Endgame, stopping him has always been the goal in the series. Even when the occasional distraction such as Naugus would come along, Eggman would always been the bigger, looming threat.

If you're looking from an out-of-story perspective of the goal, that's been even more static. Even in the early, silly days of the comic, it focused on Sonic and his friends helping people and doing the right thing. That hasn't changed. They did that at the start, in the middle, and even now. Even if the characters, places, and even backstory in the series have changed, the one thing that hasn't changed is the story's aim.
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Re: Not reaching the goal ring...

Postby OncleSam » Fri Oct 16, 2015 3:27 am

BlazeHeatnix wrote:I'm so tired of pre vs pro reboot debates. Just stop. Stop.


IMO all debates are moot and pointless. We the " masses " have little to no control at all on what can happens in these comics. The creators make it, we read it. If we like it, good, if we don't, too bad, we move on.
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Re: Not reaching the goal ring...

Postby MetalSkulkBane » Fri Oct 16, 2015 4:01 am

"There is no thesis statement to the comics"? Ok, someone explains all of this? I see accusations, but with no context or comparison.

Does Superman has any "aim for the story" other then "keep world safe"? Do Ninja Turtles are being "challenged as individuals" in a way that Freedom Fighters weren't? Ok, so maybe there wasn't that much of character focus, but Sweet Chaos, give Flynn break. His first priority now is filling the universe with new characters like Meropis, Breezie or Egg Bosses. Also, Nicole had "Spark of life" and Rotor found out his father work for Eggman. Is that doesn't count as anything?
Also I don't know what "the past and concepts are not explored further but rather just acknowledges that it exists" means. Throw me some examples and I might agree with that (I have my own problems with comic), but I don't want to jump into conclusions.

OncleSam wrote:
BlazeHeatnix wrote:I'm so tired of pre vs pro reboot debates. Just stop. Stop.


IMO all debates are moot and pointless. We the " masses " have little to no control at all on what can happens in these comics. The creators make it, we read it. If we like it, good, if we don't, too bad, we move on.


Oh no, we're debating Sonic comic on Sonic Comic Forum. What a stupid thing to do.
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Re: Not reaching the goal ring...

Postby OncleSam » Fri Oct 16, 2015 4:23 am

MetalSkulkBane wrote:"There is no thesis statement to the comics"? Ok, someone explains all of this? I see accusations, but with no context or comparison.

Does Superman has any "aim for the story" other then "keep world safe"? Do Ninja Turtles are being "challenged as individuals" in a way that Freedom Fighters weren't? Ok, so maybe there wasn't that much of character focus, but Sweet Chaos, give Flynn break. His first priority now is filling the universe with new characters like Meropis, Breezie or Egg Bosses. Also, Nicole had "Spark of life" and Rotor found out his father work for Eggman. Is that doesn't count as anything?
Also I don't know what "the past and concepts are not explored further but rather just acknowledges that it exists" means. Throw me some examples and I might agree with that (I have my own problems with comic), but I don't want to jump into conclusions.

OncleSam wrote:
BlazeHeatnix wrote:I'm so tired of pre vs pro reboot debates. Just stop. Stop.


IMO all debates are moot and pointless. We the " masses " have little to no control at all on what can happens in these comics. The creators make it, we read it. If we like it, good, if we don't, too bad, we move on.


Oh no, we're debating Sonic comic on Sonic Comic Forum. What a stupid thing to do.


I meant that it's pretty useless to go bat-crap crazy everytime someone says something that irritates you ( like now :) ) It's a good think to share opinions but to react like a 12 year old kid is actually pretty dumb.
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Re: Not reaching the goal ring...

Postby MetalSkulkBane » Fri Oct 16, 2015 5:00 am

Oh, ok :P
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Re: Not reaching the goal ring...

Postby Mavrickindigo » Fri Oct 16, 2015 8:24 am

OncleSam wrote:
BlazeHeatnix wrote:I'm so tired of pre vs pro reboot debates. Just stop. Stop.


IMO all debates are moot and pointless. We the " masses " have little to no control at all on what can happens in these comics. The creators make it, we read it. If we like it, good, if we don't, too bad, we move on.

Actually, if a large enough group of pepole stop buying/reading the comics because of something, the company might be forced to either 1.) change the comic to bring the fans back or 2.) cancel it. It would require something happening that enough pepoole would actually want to see the comic die for before any sort of change like that could happen,t though

and for me, the comic was neverTHAT bad, excpet in the pre reboot, post Genesis era when Pendering Shenanigans actively ruined the quality of stories
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Re: Not reaching the goal ring...

Postby Mordum » Fri Oct 16, 2015 8:36 am

Penguin God wrote:It's a kids' action/adventure story about Sonic the Hedgehog, super fast blue hedgehog who gets into scraps with Dr. Eggman, mad scientist manchild. That's the thesis statement. It's a serialized ongoing adventure book, of course it's not always going to be some steady march towards a single goal. It never did.


This guy knows what's up.

Comics like Sonic forever exist in the second act. The thesis statement is a story-to-story thing.
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Re: Not reaching the goal ring...

Postby Mr.Unsmiley » Fri Oct 16, 2015 10:27 am

Mordum wrote:
Penguin God wrote:It's a kids' action/adventure story about Sonic the Hedgehog, super fast blue hedgehog who gets into scraps with Dr. Eggman, mad scientist manchild. That's the thesis statement. It's a serialized ongoing adventure book, of course it's not always going to be some steady march towards a single goal. It never did.


This guy knows what's up.

Comics like Sonic forever exist in the second act. The thesis statement is a story-to-story thing.


have to wonder if these people have ever seen like... any cartoons from the 80s
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Re: Not reaching the goal ring...

Postby Mordum » Fri Oct 16, 2015 11:00 am

Mr.Unsmiley wrote:
Mordum wrote:
Penguin God wrote:It's a kids' action/adventure story about Sonic the Hedgehog, super fast blue hedgehog who gets into scraps with Dr. Eggman, mad scientist manchild. That's the thesis statement. It's a serialized ongoing adventure book, of course it's not always going to be some steady march towards a single goal. It never did.


This guy knows what's up.

Comics like Sonic forever exist in the second act. The thesis statement is a story-to-story thing.


have to wonder if these people have ever seen like... any cartoons from the 80s


Episodic storytelling is painfully underrated.
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Re: Not reaching the goal ring...

Postby Vampfox » Fri Oct 16, 2015 1:29 pm

Penguin God wrote:It's a kids' action/adventure story about Sonic the Hedgehog, super fast blue hedgehog who gets into scraps with Dr. Eggman, mad scientist manchild. That's the thesis statement. It's a serialized ongoing adventure book, of course it's not always going to be some steady march towards a single goal. It never did.

Just because it's a comic about a blue hedgehog who battles an egg shaped mad scientist doesn't mean that it can't deal with more mature themes. Oh and Robotnik isn't a manchild or at least he isn't suppose to be a manchild. Sadly Sega has ruined Robotnik as a villain, but that's more of a discussion for another topic.
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