Sonic's 25th Could Possibly Feature Other Properties?

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Re: Sonic's 25th Could Possibly Feature Other Properties?

Postby OncleSam » Fri Oct 16, 2015 3:10 am

Sounds like Worlds Unite is getting a semi-adaptation ! Sounds nice on paper, hope it gets the good treatment.

Also I'll definitely get the Sonic Colors Generations port ... Haha sounds ridiculous.
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Re: Sonic's 25th Could Possibly Feature Other Properties?

Postby SonicBlueRanger » Fri Oct 16, 2015 9:00 am

The Shadow Imperator wrote:
BlazeHeatnix wrote:I'd love to see the reasoning why Eggman builds Eggman Land, and nobody decides to do anything about it.

I'd wager it probably follows the same reasoning, or lack thereof, that nobody did anything about his space amusement park with alien planets tethered to it. Intelligence seems to be in short supply on Sonic's world.

"An evil plan? I dunno."

--Tails


It's almost like the story is secondary or something. :P

I...don't know about this. I like crossovers but it really does seem a tiny bit disrespectful to these games to just throw them into a Sonic game and call it Sega's Anniversary. On the other hand it might be fun if the gameplay altered depending on the specific world.

I'd hope they'd make the game a little longer than the past couple games if they are throwing all these games into one game.
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Re: Sonic's 25th Could Possibly Feature Other Properties?

Postby Mavrickindigo » Fri Oct 16, 2015 9:29 am

SonicBlueRanger wrote:
The Shadow Imperator wrote:
BlazeHeatnix wrote:I'd love to see the reasoning why Eggman builds Eggman Land, and nobody decides to do anything about it.

I'd wager it probably follows the same reasoning, or lack thereof, that nobody did anything about his space amusement park with alien planets tethered to it. Intelligence seems to be in short supply on Sonic's world.

"An evil plan? I dunno."

--Tails


It's almost like the story is secondary or something. :P

I...don't know about this. I like crossovers but it really does seem a tiny bit disrespectful to these games to just throw them into a Sonic game and call it Sega's Anniversary. On the other hand it might be fun if the gameplay altered depending on the specific world.

I'd hope they'd make the game a little longer than the past couple games if they are throwing all these games into one game.

Even if story is secondary, it doesn't have to have logical holes in it. It's pretty obvious that Pontac and Graff don't have the knowledge or care to pen a story for a Sonic game. They look to the concept more than to the history for their material.And its not just them. Shadow the Hedgehog is probably one of the most well-developed characters in the series, as he actually had an arc, and heck, he is probably the character who understands friendship and doing the right thing the most, yet when we see him after 06, he's a different flavor of saturday morning cartoon villain, depending on who it is who writes him
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Re: Sonic's 25th Could Possibly Feature Other Properties?

Postby Mordum » Fri Oct 16, 2015 9:44 am

Mavrickindigo wrote:Even if story is secondary, it doesn't have to have logical holes in it. It's pretty obvious that Pontac and Graff don't have the knowledge or care to pen a story for a Sonic game.


Or they just have different priorities than you.
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Re: Sonic's 25th Could Possibly Feature Other Properties?

Postby Mavrickindigo » Fri Oct 16, 2015 10:06 am

Mordum wrote:
Mavrickindigo wrote:Even if story is secondary, it doesn't have to have logical holes in it. It's pretty obvious that Pontac and Graff don't have the knowledge or care to pen a story for a Sonic game.


Or they just have different priorities than you.

Well, maybe "get a paycheck" is a perfectly valid priority, but what really rises a piece to stand out is the amount of care and attention that is put into it. Sonic games have long since been riddled by questionable decisions made on every part of production. Writing, though not the most importan part of a video game, is still important.

For example: Pontac and Graff's Sonic never worries about anything. When facing insurmountable odds, he blows it off like its nothing. Now, if this is coming before the final boss of a game, or in the climax, all it does is serve to diffuse the tension. When you're about to face the final boss, or something equally as big in a video game, the story should work to build it up, to make you pumped to face against the challenge. THey don't do that.

Of course, even when they do, there's that "ludonarrative dissonance," like in Lost World. They write in that the world is about to be killed, and Sonic only has a limited amount of time to save it, yet the stage leading up to his confrontation with Zavok is bright and colorful, as well as super long. That stuck out to me as not fitting the theme that the writers were trying to convey.

Video game writing, in essence, doesn't need to be about setting up some grand tale, or some major political commentary or whatever. What it needs to do is set the proper mood for what's coming next in the game.
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Re: Sonic's 25th Could Possibly Feature Other Properties?

Postby Mordum » Fri Oct 16, 2015 11:49 am

I meant creative priorities.

Nothing you say stops something from being a Sonic story. Your personal tonal preferences are not the rubric of a Sonic story. You also can't assess how much someone did or didn't care based on your perception of the quality of the work.
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Re: Sonic's 25th Could Possibly Feature Other Properties?

Postby The Swordsman » Fri Oct 16, 2015 12:37 pm

squeakyboots13 wrote:Having Sonic visit the worlds of other Sega franchises is a stupid idea for an anniversary game. Like if this were for the anniversary of Sega as a whole, then sure but this is supposed to be Sonic's year. A celebration of Sonic shouldn't shoehorn in a bunch of other franchises that are no longer relevant. That wouldn't make any sense. And we've had games that crossed Sonic over with other Sega franchises before so that novelty wouldn't exactly be a new one.

It would be cool if they did something like that as bonus levels or DLC but not the main selling point of a game or at least Sonic's 25th anniversary game.

This. It also gives the implication that those franchises were just franchises in Sonic's world instead of their own universe which I not fond of.

Mordum wrote:I meant creative priorities.

Nothing you say stops something from being a Sonic story. Your personal tonal preferences are not the rubric of a Sonic story. You also can't assess how much someone did or didn't care based on your perception of the quality of the work.

Seriously? Pontac and Graff do not know how to write Sonic at all. Tails completely acts out of character in Lost World, Knuckles is just there for no reason and doesn't do anything despite being the Guardian of the Master Emerald, Sonic never worries about anything despite caring what goes on in previous games. They really need to fire them and rehire the staff in charge of the story before or hire Ian. If you like lighthearted stuff and don't care about story in video games fine but at least have characters in character.
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Re: Sonic's 25th Could Possibly Feature Other Properties?

Postby Mordum » Fri Oct 16, 2015 12:39 pm

Which doesn't address my point at all.

Whether or not it's good does not stop it from being a Sonic story, nor can you tell how much someone did or didn't care about the work based on your perception of its quality. A different interpretation doesn't mean they don't care.
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Re: Sonic's 25th Could Possibly Feature Other Properties?

Postby SonicBlueRanger » Fri Oct 16, 2015 12:43 pm

Everytime people say "They don't know how to write Sonic" all I can think is did you forget the time where Sonic made sure Tails got to safety before the Interstellar Amusement Park exploded and blamed himself for setting the Deadly Six free?

But I guess none of that matters because Tails was a little braggy in Lost World. :roll:
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Re: Sonic's 25th Could Possibly Feature Other Properties?

Postby theJcfreak » Fri Oct 16, 2015 1:01 pm

I've never heard these rumors before and they look about as well-sourced as any other internet rumor. That said the idea of Sonic playing through Sega-themed levels is amazing. I would want them to branch out though from the Mega Drive/Genesis games. Give me a Nights stage or a Super Monkey Ball stage. Oh man, a Jet Set Radio stage. Can you imagine how cool that would be? I'd go for an Alex Kidd stage too.

Or a Seaman stage.

What I'm more curious about is one of the images from OP's link.

Image

Like are we just not gonna talk about how they're using images from the comic for 25th Anniversary logos?
Last edited by theJcfreak on Fri Oct 16, 2015 1:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Sonic's 25th Could Possibly Feature Other Properties?

Postby BlazeHeatnix » Fri Oct 16, 2015 1:04 pm

They also came up with the Deadly Six in general, the stupidest and most pointless villains Sonic has ever had. They also didn't bother giving Generations any clever references that Ian would've done, or anything other than a barebones plot, when the entire setup BEGGED for a decently large story. They also have written more unfunny lines than anything Boom does, and that's saying a lot.

The cons VASTLY outweigh anything positive they ever did, and they need to go. I realize story is secondary in Sonic, and the bar is pretty low for an enjoyable story, but they don't even meet that low standard.
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Re: Sonic's 25th Could Possibly Feature Other Properties?

Postby Mordum » Fri Oct 16, 2015 1:14 pm

I like that I try to make a point that the perception of quality doesn't equal care or work ethic or canonical legitimacy or whatever and none of you are literate enough to entertain that for a second because you just need to whine.

Rather than reemphasize my point, I'm just going to copypaste the Declaration of Independence because none of you can tell the difference anyways.

IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.

The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.
He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.
He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.
He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.
He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.
He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.
He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.
He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.
He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.
He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.
He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.
He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.
He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:
For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:
For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:
For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:
For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences
For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:
For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:
For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.
He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.
He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.
He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.
He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.
He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our Brittish brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.

We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.
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Re: Sonic's 25th Could Possibly Feature Other Properties?

Postby DudestofGuys » Fri Oct 16, 2015 1:19 pm

It's not that they can't understand, they just disagree.

What always gets me is how people assume the current writers have far more creative control than is actually feasible. They script tiny, low cost cutscene reusing assets based on the framework set up by Sonic Team. They're not just going to be able to do whatever they want and the fact that they've gained a bit of sway as of Lost World is surprising.
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Re: Sonic's 25th Could Possibly Feature Other Properties?

Postby Mordum » Fri Oct 16, 2015 1:23 pm

DudestofGuys wrote:It's not that they can't understand, they just disagree.

What always gets me is how people assume the current writers have far more creative control than is actually feasible. They script tiny, low cost cutscene reusing assets based on the framework set up by Sonic Team. They're not just going to be able to do whatever they want and the fact that they've gained a bit of sway as of Lost World is surprising.


No, they don't understand. My entire argument is that you can't tell how much an artist does or does not care based on the quality of their product, and they respond by telling me how bad the quality is, something I am not even supporting, defending, or detracting.

Here, have the prologue of Romeo and Juliet, because that above paragraph isn't going to matter and I can just type whatever I want and somebody will refute a point I'm not trying to make because all of language is interchangeable:

Two households, both alike in dignity,
In fair Verona, where we lay our scene,
From ancient grudge break to new mutiny,
Where civil blood makes civil hands unclean.
From forth the fatal loins of these two foes
A pair of star-cross'd lovers take their life;
Whose misadventured piteous overthrows
Do with their death bury their parents' strife.
The fearful passage of their death-mark'd love,
And the continuance of their parents' rage,
Which, but their children's end, nought could remove,
Is now the two hours' traffic of our stage;
The which if you with patient ears attend,
What here shall miss, our toil shall strive to mend.
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Re: Sonic's 25th Could Possibly Feature Other Properties?

Postby SonicWindAttack » Fri Oct 16, 2015 1:32 pm

I feel like this thread is going off course... if you guys want to start an entirely different debate because of one offhand comment, make a new thread and do it there.
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