Will the other characters ever be playable again?

Forum devoted to Sonic the Hedgehog, Sonic Universe and the entire Sonic line by Archie Comics.

Will the other characters ever be playable again?

Yes
18
69%
No
8
31%
 
Total votes : 26

Re: Will the other characters ever be playable again?

Postby DJGameFreakTheIguana » Sun Nov 01, 2015 4:56 am

Can't say for sure what will happen given how Sega wants to please reviewers so badly(At the cost of sales), but would be then happy to see them back in, the only character I really don't like being Amy, and Big was fixed in Heroes. Now, with implementing gameplay styles, I'm going to go with a suggestion that this blogger went with, which I also have to censor(Haven't been here for a while and I don't know what the rules on language is, (hearty laughter)):

"So lets say Sonic was given to a really competent company that was passionate about benefitting fans (and I can’t name anyone anymore seeing as BRB up and proved me wrong). This “miracle” worker was given the opportunity to save this franchise from Sammy. What would they have to do in order to salvage this thing?

An idea I had was have a game that did infact feature different kinds of gameplay modes, but instead, it would have this “revolutionary idea” of “player choice” in that you get to choose what game mode you play each stage in. Like say you wanted to play Zone 1: Act 1 with the Boost @#$% from Generations (and I suppose without the 2.5D stuff), but the very next level, you’d have the option of playing Act 2 as a “Classic” level in 2D with all the newaunces of the Genesis/Advance/DS/PSN games. Act 3 could then be played of your choosing an “explore mode” where you basically have a kinda blending of Classic and Boosts modes, but you’re mostly looking around a 3D space trying…. to solve puzzles or w/e stupid junk the hardcore likes to do. And this would be of your own choosing. You could play the whole dang game in Classic form if you wanted to. Each mode would have their own perks for incentive to play them anyway, you could choose w/e character you dang well please, and that’s the end of it. Everyone… would be happy."

I would also take this a bit further with an idea of my own. I working on a few fan games, a few of them do feature Sonic characters. Even though I'm using an engine primarily made for 2D Beat'em ups, it can handle other things as well, including platforming, all it would take is designing the characters and stages differently, in ways I already do in my main title, Sega Brawlers Megamix, but I could do something similar to the Adventure titles. Speed characters would have stages based on the old SegaSonic arcade game, where you spent most of the time dodging traps while running fast, and fighting enemies. They would also have a secondary mechanic where you automatically run at high speed, much like in Sonic 06(I also implemented this in anther project of mine). The flying characters would have 2D platforming stages, and would basically be like the classics were, with a bit less speed. Don't know how I would give them another mechanic, unless it's based on shooting. The power characters would basically have the typical beat'em up gameplay like the old days. Alternate mechanics would be similar to Chaotix missions in Heroes, but far less tedious.

Now, if we did have another 3D sonic game with multiple characters and styles that people claim to be bad, keep in mind that Sega had a pretty good record of releasing 2 or 3 Sonic games a year. They could easily make another game for those people to play, like having the handheld games 2D and the 3D games story-driven with different mechanics, you know, like how Sega use to do it? There's no reason for those who want more out of our Sonic games to keep missing out just so a fewer number of people, who've shown they don't like Sonic as much as they appear to, don't get angry. If no one else has brought it up, Sonic Adventure 2, despite how much people claim to hate it, was one of the top 10 selling games on digital markets multiple times, doing much better the Colors and Generations, given that their sales are only over 2 million because the handheld ports that are completely different, are added to the console sales, which were actually poor. I wont even go into Lost World and Boom, although I own Rise of Lyric because I like beat'em up games and I always wanted a Sonic game like it. My main problem is that they still kept that comedy style writing and ruined Knuckles as a character even further. It could've been faster to. This and Black Knight had a few things the other needs, and vice versa.

If anyone is interested, you can see some of what I was talking about in videos I posted here: http://www.chronocrash.com/forum/index.php?topic=381.0
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Re: Will the other characters ever be playable again?

Postby Mordum » Sun Nov 01, 2015 9:02 am

DJGameFreakTheIguana wrote: Everyone… would be happy."


Aiming to please everyone never works. I'd rather a game be good at its specific style, not try to be good at every style. Inevitably, it'd just turn out overambitious and mediocre. Your method isn't growth, it's an excuse to STOP growing.
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Re: Will the other characters ever be playable again?

Postby DJGameFreakTheIguana » Sun Nov 01, 2015 1:34 pm

It's one game dude, not the direction of the entire series, and given that I clearly said this-
"Now, if we did have another 3D sonic game with multiple characters and styles that people claim to be bad, keep in mind that Sega had a pretty good record of releasing 2 or 3 Sonic games a year. They could easily make another game for those people to play, like having the handheld games 2D and the 3D games story-driven with different mechanics, you know, like how Sega use to do it?"

Furthermore, you also show one of the other problems many people show, too busy shooting down, and failing to see that while, no, you can't please everyone, there's no reason to not try to find a common ground, and if you think Sega tried it before, they didn't, it was all pandering to critics and fanboys. If Sega can't try to make one game were people have the choice do play how they want because "the series wont grow", then you'd have to give some serious thought on how the series has been growing since 2010 in the first place, or really, even since Unleashed, but Colors brought in that childish writing.

Oh, I should also mention that the author of the blog just wrote that everyone being happy down as a joke, and included a video of the song, Happy, by Pharrell, IIRC. He knew full well not everyone would like the idea.

"But then you have people who feel that ANY of the above could or should not be in a Sonic game ever again. Either 3D is evil because 3D Sonic has had flaws or 2D Sonic is evil because it’s 2014, so even trying to please everyone would be….. ticking people off anyway. You followin me?"

"We’re dealing with a people that are high strung about saving the franchise, and not really concerned about their own tastes. So the mindset isn’t even on about “what they want”, it’s about “getting everything right”. When you’ve got a majority shooting down every idea in the book, it’s mostly a fear reaction as they believe the ideas would make the series worse (it’s already in worst phase). Meeting fan demand is not in their prerogative as Sonic fans have hoodwinked themselves that fan demand killed the franchise (again, Shadow the Hedgehog). It’s ironic in a sense as the fanbase is thinking in terms of audience expansion. Trying to find some way to make the series relevant again, revitalizing interest in it. I don’t think any other fandom even considers the relevancy of their favorite franchises."

Like I said though, 1 game isn't going to hurt, and if you're concerned about the series growing, again, look at it from the past few years....
Last edited by DJGameFreakTheIguana on Sun Nov 01, 2015 1:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Will the other characters ever be playable again?

Postby The KKM » Sun Nov 01, 2015 1:51 pm

I want you to re-read your comment over and over until you realise yourself your hipocrisy of claiming others are too quick to shoot down, that you CAN in fact appeal to "everyone", and then turn and say that SEGA's never tried it because they were appealing to "critics and fanboys" anyway.
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Re: Will the other characters ever be playable again?

Postby DJGameFreakTheIguana » Sun Nov 01, 2015 1:59 pm

No I don't see the hypocrisy, so you're going to have to explain that one man. That's exactly what they have been doing, appealing only to them rather then making a game a wider audience at least, as well as the people who may have liked the 3D titles before Unleashed.
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Re: Will the other characters ever be playable again?

Postby The KKM » Sun Nov 01, 2015 4:31 pm

You're outering them. They'll never be able to appeal to the "everyone" you want because if they do and you don't like it, you just wave it away as "that wasn't really for everyone, it was just for the fanboys and critics!". Effectively, everyone but YOU is the fanboys and critics.
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Re: Will the other characters ever be playable again?

Postby MetalSkulkBane » Sun Nov 01, 2015 5:43 pm

I'm not going to join this 'hypocrisy' discussion, buy DJ's idea doesn't sound right to me. Doesn't that just mean forcing Sega to make 3 games as one? Sounds good on paper, but there are 3 possible outcomes.
1 Game will be very short for people who play one mode
2 Game will be to expensive to be made
3 Effort will spread too thin and big chunk of the game will end unpolished.
I mean, people love Mario Karts and New Mario Bros, but they don't want the game where you can choose playing between the two.
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Re: Will the other characters ever be playable again?

Postby DJGameFreakTheIguana » Sun Nov 01, 2015 5:58 pm

The KKM wrote:You're outering them. They'll never be able to appeal to the "everyone" you want because if they do and you don't like it, you just wave it away as "that wasn't really for everyone, it was just for the fanboys and critics!". Effectively, everyone but YOU is the fanboys and critics.

Yeah, you're focusing too much on the few people who don't like the idea or the ones I'm outing, vs the many that could benefit from it. I already said he author knows it wont please everyone, but it will please a larger number then the few. Either that or you're taking "everyone" too literally.

EDIT:
I almost forgot why I didn't agree with your hypocrisy accusation, it's because I never said anything about not making a game for critics, those were YOUR, IF, the idea doesn't work, I only said they only have been with games they've made in the past few years, and that's actually true. Also, everyone buy me being fanboys and critics is hyperbole, as if I'm the only one who actually knows this.

MetalSkulkBane wrote:I'm not going to join this 'hypocrisy' discussion, buy DJ's idea doesn't sound right to me. Doesn't that just mean forcing Sega to make 3 games as one? Sounds good on paper, but there are 3 possible outcomes.
1 Game will be very short for people who play one mode
2 Game will be to expensive to be made
3 Effort will spread too thin and big chunk of the game will end unpolished.
I mean, people love Mario Karts and New Mario Bros, but they don't want the game where you can choose playing between the two.

I would have to ask you actually know this what people have specifically said. Regardless, #1, this wasn't a problem when Sega made the adventure games and advance games around the same time frame, #2 isn't an issue because Sega has enough to make all their other games, and #3 unpolished wasn't that big of an issue in what I said in regards to #1, where Sega made multiple games a once, and have been doing sense. Even then, mos of Sega games have been unpolished, but that didn't stop them from being fun regardless.
Last edited by DJGameFreakTheIguana on Sun Nov 01, 2015 6:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Will the other characters ever be playable again?

Postby Penguin God » Sun Nov 01, 2015 6:09 pm

The Adventure games were absolutely unpolished. They could have used tons and tons and tons of refining from where they were, and focusing on six (or three) different playstyles absolutely spread things too thin. Making every single act actually three levels (and actually more than three levels to accommodate even more playable characters) is just making a game that'd be what, triple the size of Generations? And all to try and appeal 'everybody', as if Sonic needs to be every single type of game at once.
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Re: Will the other characters ever be playable again?

Postby The Shadow Imperator » Sun Nov 01, 2015 6:15 pm

Unpolished or not it's still fun to go back and play through the Adventure games' various story and gameplay modes. I don't feel that desire with any of the modern games save for Unleashed. Maybe if they actually put effort into the stories I would care to revisit them more, but we're getting off-topic...
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Re: Will the other characters ever be playable again?

Postby DJGameFreakTheIguana » Sun Nov 01, 2015 6:22 pm

Penguin God wrote:The Adventure games were absolutely unpolished. They could have used tons and tons and tons of refining from where they were, and focusing on six (or three) different playstyles absolutely spread things too thin. Making every single act actually three levels (and actually more than three levels to accommodate even more playable characters) is just making a game that'd be what, triple the size of Generations? And all to try and appeal 'everybody', as if Sonic needs to be every single type of game at once.

And being unpolished didn't stop them from being good, and kinda follows tee notion that they should be as subjectively good as the games we have now, though I don't just mean other Sonic titles, especially when I don't even like them myself, and how polished they are isn't the issue.

I also never said anything about Sonic being "every single type of game at once", which is another hyperbolic statement, not appealing to "everybody" in doing so. In fact, I don't even know if you even really payed attention to what I wrote and just attacking a few things you had a personal problem with. In the grand scheme of things, it's better to try a middle ground with more people then just the few, and I think more people would be on board with that, rather then nitpicking, as most people have been doing, as far as I've seen, since I started interacting with this fanbase at the Sega forums.

The Shadow Imperator wrote:Unpolished or not it's still fun to go back and play through the Adventure games' various story and gameplay modes. I don't feel that desire with any of the modern games save for Unleashed. Maybe if they actually put effort into the stories I would care to revisit them more, but then we're getting off-topic...

I would have to agree with everything you just said here, but as far as he topic goes, I was offering ideas on how that could be executed, but then some people wanted to focus on other issues it seems. Plus, the main reason I don't even find the polish part to be an issue is because I could easily pull off most of what I said with the mechanics already programmed into the engine I used. Now yes, Sega would have to make new mechanics again, but I doubt it's that hard, they just don't have the desire to put in effort in Sonic game, or should I say Sonic Team. I own a few of Sega's other titles, and the mechanics and all of them or either good to perfect.
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Re: Will the other characters ever be playable again?

Postby Specs64z » Tue Nov 03, 2015 9:13 am

The only way I'd want other characters to return would be the adventure formula perfected. I miss the treasure hunting and (well, to some extent, anyway) the lock-on shooting. I would love to see them get an upgrade. I don't think the other characters styles would fit in a boost-to-win/Lost Cause setting.
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