A criticism of Team Dark in this comic

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A criticism of Team Dark in this comic

Postby Village » Thu Oct 08, 2015 10:20 am

So I have been trying to talk about this for a while, and its been a year so I guess this is as good of time if any. A criticism of team dark using the shadow, shadow and knuckles arc and a bit of worlds unite as examples. Spoilers will be put in spoiler boxes .

So it all begins with this

if you talk to the shadow enough, he will reluctantly say words, because no matter how tough he acts, he actually sort of enjoys people caring about him. Even if he is rather self loathing

Not only is this theme proven in the game and comics (one in particular relevant to this argument ) its proven in the first game he's in. You can talk to shadow, many people have, heck if you ask him for a favor... he'll probably help you. If you catch him at the right time. So the idea shadow just wont talk to you is false, and rouge has no issue talking to folks.... except... shadow, in the comic at least. Now they do... say words to each other. But they don't actually... talk. Every conversation is dictated by the situation at hand, and while yes... that applies to every conversation ever. They don't actually inquire about each other enough. Especially during situations in which this would probably be most beneficial .

So lets start with the sonic universe Shadow the hedgehog game arc.

Spoiler: show
So back to it, during the shadow arc in I think the first few pages. Shadows... " boss" " employer?" they never really define what shadow is to gun, I have always assumed kind of a merc. The Gun solders in that comic treat him like an outlier, so they might just call him in frequently for stuff. Shadow's employer basically tells team dark not to trust him. This... this in the beginning after all the things they went through, nothing? Nothing at all? Like I don't know what shadow and rouges relationship is , which is another result of their lack of communication. I don't know if they are going on, friends, basically relatives at this point( I like to go with the last one) but if your relationship is anything beyond coworker. That's something you talk about right?

And not only that, the reason that whole discussion happened, was because the dragon/insect alien things shadow happen to be related to have come back to earth. So that drudges up a bunch of weird memories, and also warrants conversation.Considering like two seconds on the ship they remind us of the mental link and the fact shadow was the only one able to stop them and they almost killed everyone. But nothing is said besides " are you ok" " maybe don't go to deep maybe " which is relatively nothing in the grand scheme of things. Because you walking in giant monument to shadow's self loathing and " monster inside complex. And.... we get nothing. To be fair rouge defends shadow against the gun soldiers... but that doesn't go anywhere. That could have been an interesting way to show that these characters actually care about one another... but it doesn't go anywhere... and is superficial and generic at best.

So when shadow gets mind controlled, as it seems shadow often does these days. He tries to kill rouge and omega, this is the only time rouge talks to the shadow. And She tells the shadow to stop being angsty all the time. This is actually worse, so not only does this seem to indicate the only way her and shadow can have any semblance of concern for one another is one trying to murder the other person. The talk.... is pointless, shadow was mind controlled, it wouldn't have happened if shadow wasn't mind controlled, he was trying to communicate with them the whole time. Yeah it happened at a dramatic moment. But she was giving a lecture to a person who didn't need it. All the tension taken out of that scene. And in normal circumstances in this type of super hero situation the tension relieved in that scene would have been a good thing. But now its just like, well rouge has returned to not giving a @#$% about shadow. he fights the aliens, blah blah bah blah, he's cool and wins, and escapes. And after that they have this scene where shadow is yelled at by rouge for making her worry in generic anime type fashion. But given the lack of giving a @#$% she had besides basic like sort of mandated behavior before.... it just comes off as... fake. She seems like she's lying. Like she is there by obligation rather than anything else, reacting in a way you sort of have to. And like if the creators of this book, want to have story about shadow , or like rouge never actually caring about shadow... sure. But otherwise.... are they even friends. It just comes off as poor story telling, like I cannot believe these characters ... are friends at all. They randomly insert scenes at the end to indicate some friendship... but don't actually do anything that would... indicate friendliness just a lie.


And then on Angel island...

Spoiler: show
So after that, the knuckles thing happens. Not going to go into how forced this fight was, but basically the teams split up Rouge with Knuckles and Relic with Shadow. Shadow is guarding the master emerald, ... and something magical happens. This character... who has never met shadow in her life. Is actually interested in him and asks him questions, and while she's cut off by an eclipse attack,it seems as if she was shadow... positive reinforcement tell him its going to be alright. That he was worth something, and even after his victory over eclipse, when the others return, she's quick to say shadow did a good job was brave and is of worth. Why ... why is this character who has never interacted with shadow ever having a better conversation with shadow... than rouge. I don't expect much out of Omega, he's a robot and he's funny. So I don't mention him much, but rouge the living organism. His bestfriend/girlfriend/sister thing, nothing. But on this flipside... she's with knuckles... and just asks him about his life and @#$%. And its like... wait wait a minute, after all this, after all this alien business, the reason why you are here in the first place. You could ask shadow " hey whats going on, wanna talk. Or rather we need to talk about this?" Like this living embodiment to shadow's self loathing , eclipse is walking around. Nothing, not a word, nothing in depth, and the only semblance of in depth conversation require attempted murder, and was invalidated by mind control. Shadow in this odd time in his life getting more encouragement from knuckles and some girl he just met... rather than you... his best friend. Or so we are told.


Even during the Worlds Unite
Spoiler: show
Sonic is interested ins shadow's well being even if he doesn't remember. Because despite them fighting, that's his friend and he's considered. He didn't need to do that shadow wouldn't even have remembered, but he did. And in that moment was better friend to shadow than rouge ever was.


This isn't a thread on how team dark shouldn't exist, though I do fall firmly on that side.But rather one that can possible generate some solutions to this problem. Because It feels... very fake. And if that's the relationship you want them to have... just this co-worker thing. Thats totally fine, play into that. Not everything has to be a shipping war, that would be interesting. But if you are going try and get like... and emotional reaction out of us. Then they have to do things that indicate caring beyond... basic stuff that doesn't lead anywhere. I'm not saying dedicate a whole arc to rouge and shadow talking, but if the next comic with them in they sort of address, that would help. Heck maybe shadow is mad, it seems like she didn't care. You can play into these sorts of things, but as of currently, I don't believe team dark.

So I wouldn't mind if team dark just split, hey maybe that's a direction sega goes in future. But for now if you want them together... they need to start talking.
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Re: A criticism of Team Dark in this comic

Postby Mobotropolis » Thu Oct 08, 2015 7:25 pm

I'm fine with Team Dark's relationship.

I'm actually more fine with them than with the Freedom Fighters right now.

They are three very different individuals who work together for the sake of the mission. That doesn't necessarily mean that they will hang out after work or talk about their " feelings ". None of them seem to be the type for that. Shadow doesn't want it. Rouge is above it. Omega is a robot. Since they come from different backgrounds and have had different experiences leading up to the formation of the team it's hard for them to relate to one another.

In a way, I see Team Dark as the Anti-Freedom Fighters. They aren't childhood friends. They aren't really buddy-buddy with each other. They aren't doing things because its what they personally believe in. It's their job and this is the mission. They are not above doing underhanded things to get their way. They will gladly cross the moral horizon to get what they want and fight anyone who stands in their way.

I think Rouge cares about Shadow in the same sense that Sonic and Friends care about any of mobian they might meet. She's compassionate, but that doesn't mean she necessarily sees him as a friend or love interest. That trait of hers is because she is the most " human " member of Team Dark and supposed to be its heart. She can be conniving, but she isn't made of stone.
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Re: A criticism of Team Dark in this comic

Postby Village » Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:08 pm

Could you tell me your issues with the freedom fighters, I would love to hear it actually.

Team dark aren't the freedom fighters, but that doesn't mean they can't act like they care. And even if its not on like a super friendly level at least in terms of rouge to shadow. she should care considering that he's dangerous her boss told her he's dangerous and making super the time and space altering immortal super hog she's teamed up with. Doesn't go off kilter, especially when possible mind control is still a possibility. All that said... rouge seems to not care about shadow, she' should be asking him whats up. While i don't agree with the " she's above it " statement because she literally sees knuckles and immediately inquires how he is doing. With no attempted murder required, clearly she don't mind asking folks whats up. Why can't she ask shadow? If she's above that... after all the stuff he has gone through, who he is... and what he is going through now. She's just a bad friend.

Here's the thing though, if they aren't friends really or romantic or anything. That is totally fine, but instead of trying to create these situations having rouge trying to care. Play into it. For example, you say that " they only care about their job " that might be true for rouge and Omega. But that isn't for shadow, shadow is actually way more of a care bear than the other two. Remember the reason shadow even agreed to join gun is because he thinks he's helping the world the best way he can. he's a creation twisted for revenge , and brought into this world by evil aliens. He's literally a living breathing weapon of time warping mass destruction. He is self loathing and believes himself a monster. And after the dust settled he had no purpose, so he took maria's words as his purpose to help people. We does what he does because he believes it will help the world. It gives him purpose, heck even his game the main ending implies all the good endings were the ones that happened. And he apologizes for hurting solders if you do hurt them.All he wants to do, is help people. It comes up in treasure team tango, when amy wants to talk sense into someone she didn't go to rouge and omega, she went to shadow. Because when it comes down to it, he's a good guy. He's more of a good guy than the other two members of team dark. And if they aren't friends... then play into it.

If rouge is infact more work minded, maybe they play into it. Maybe its just a rift in the team, maybe gun isn't aligning with what shadow thinks is good anymore and he leaves. And that causes some conflict and separation in the team. i don't mind if it turns out rouge doesn't actually give two @#$%, but play into it. Don't have rouge not care, and then care at the end because reasons. Or not care about the one thing but knuckles is something that gets talked about, or maybe do that and thats a thing. I'm not some weird shipping person I don't need the characters to be making out all the time. But what i want is interesting relationships and interactions. And I just don't believe team dark's. It all feels superficial.
Last edited by Village on Fri Oct 09, 2015 2:34 am, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: A criticism of Team Dark in this comic

Postby Penguin God » Thu Oct 08, 2015 10:10 pm

Mobotropolis wrote:In a way, I see Team Dark as the Anti-Freedom Fighters. They aren't childhood friends. They aren't really buddy-buddy with each other. They aren't doing things because its what they personally believe in.

They are pretty buddy-buddy though, and Shadow's whole deal is finding out what he personally believed in. He's got possibly the strongest convictions in the entire cast once he realizes what they are. Team Dark may be different from Freedom Fighters in that they're supposed to be anti-heroes instead of heroes and adults instead of teenagers, but they're still kid-friendly outcasts who joined together and decided they liked each other enough to stay (in the games, Omega isn't even part of GUN. He's only around as Shadow and Rouge's friend.)
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Re: A criticism of Team Dark in this comic

Postby Mr.Unsmiley » Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:21 pm

Mobotropolis wrote:They are three very different individuals who work together for the sake of the mission. That doesn't necessarily mean that they will hang out after work or talk about their " feelings ". None of them seem to be the type for that.


but like... they are totally the type for that in the games, which the comics are ostensibly more based on since the reboot. the whole Shadow storyline in 06 is basically just Rouge and Omega confirming they would stick by him no matter how rough things get, in the most blatant heart-on-their-sleeves fashion
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Re: A criticism of Team Dark in this comic

Postby Shadowclaw98 » Fri Oct 09, 2015 1:31 am

I don't really have a problem with Team Dark, they're something a little different to the Freedom Fighters. I understand what you're saying about the lack of casual communication between them and think it's a little sad that they've only been seen 'hanging out' about twice since the team formed.

But Team Dark have only really been saved for the Sonic Universe arcs (and only really been in four as a trio) so I don't feel that anyone can make a proper judgement on how they act off-screen, when the only times they've been shown, bar Worlds Collide, is on mission.

I feel that you're missing something though. Team Dark work for GUN. That means they're SOLDIERS, so when they act professional it's because they don't really have a choice cos they're 'in the field' as it were. And their actions have to serve the greater good.

And, like Mobotropolis said: Omega's a robot for a start and while I disagree with the 'Rouge is above it' notion she's still a soldier, so she has to maintain a sense of professionalism when on mission. Shadow, despite being 50+ and having the intelligence of a young adult, has the life experience of a three year old, so he's probably a little socially inept for that reason. And I don't think the Professor messing with his memories in SA2 helped.

But even then, all three of them a capable of caring for each other as friends. Pre-SGW Rouge convinced Knuckles to stop hiding after he was Enerjak AND was concerned for Shadow's safety in Worlds Collide (so much so she was willing to infiltrate the Skull Egg to find) Shadow helped Blaze in Treasure Team Tango and was furious when Rouge was Roboticized in Worlds Collide. Heck, even Omega tried with Hope in Scrambled.
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Re: A criticism of Team Dark in this comic

Postby Village » Fri Oct 09, 2015 2:29 am

Shadowclaw98 wrote:I don't really have a problem with Team Dark, they're something a little different to the Freedom Fighters. I understand what you're saying about the lack of casual communication between them and think it's a little sad that they've only been seen 'hanging out' about twice since the team formed.

While thats true... hanging out doesn't have to be the only time they have casual conversation. Rouges conversation with knuckles happened with them looking for something. Maybe a team dark story where the villain is rather easy and irrelevant where they get to talk might alleviate this. Or maybe they play into that gun not trusting shadow thing, and shadow turns on gun, so you get like a bit of down time before stuff goes down.

Shadowclaw98 wrote:But Team Dark have only really been saved for the Sonic Universe arcs (and only really been in four as a trio) so I don't feel that anyone can make a proper judgement on how they act off-screen, when the only times they've been shown, bar Worlds Collide, is on mission.

Unless distinctly said, what happens off screen essentially doesn't happen. Its speculation.

Shadowclaw98 wrote:I feel that you're missing something though. Team Dark work for GUN. That means they're SOLDIERS, so when they act professional it's because they don't really have a choice cos they're 'in the field' as it were. And their actions have to serve the greater good.

Team dark doesn't give a @#$% about professionalism. Rouge strait up will abandon the mission to steal , and shadow is only with gun because he thinks its the greater good. He's self righteous as @#$% , if he ever suspects the greater good is something else. he would leave gun. And as mentioned before, Omega isn't apart of gun. He's just .... kinda there.

Shadowclaw98 wrote:And, like Mobotropolis said: Omega's a robot for a start and while I disagree with the 'Rouge is above it' notion she's still a soldier, so she has to maintain a sense of professionalism when on mission.

One, I mentioned before, she doesn't have to maintain an air of professionalism, because she doesn't care. and two when your team mate is a living weapon with cosnistsant reoccurring psychological problems. Asking him if he's ok is probably the most professional thing you can do.


Shadowclaw98 wrote:But even then, all three of them a capable of caring for each other as friends. Pre-SGW Rouge convinced Knuckles to stop hiding after he was Enerjak AND was concerned for Shadow's safety in Worlds Collide (so much so she was willing to infiltrate the Skull Egg to find) Shadow helped Blaze in Treasure Team Tango and was furious when Rouge was Roboticized in Worlds Collide. Heck, even Omega tried with Hope in Scrambled.

while their interactions with others are interesting ( and one of the reasons I don't even think team dark should even be a thing ) isn't exact the most relevant in the context you are using it in. And worlds collide was interesting but the behavior didn't continue, and that is at best like weird spin off story. In the main sonic butt, sonic characters continuity, rouge kind of doesn't give a crap enough to inquire about shadow's well being unless being threaten. And she cares enough about knuckles, to just ask him. Which again, could be totally fine if they play into it. But they don't so, it just comes off as bad writing , and rouge just not caring.
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Re: A criticism of Team Dark in this comic

Postby Mordum » Fri Oct 09, 2015 4:54 am

Is the premise of this thread seriously based around not being able to comprehend certain people relate to others differently than other people do?
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Re: A criticism of Team Dark in this comic

Postby Mobotropolis » Fri Oct 09, 2015 7:50 am

Could you tell me your issues with the freedom fighters, I would love to hear it actually.

I'd rather not derail the thread.

While i don't agree with the " she's above it " statement because she literally sees knuckles and immediately inquires how he is doing.

I was talking about her feelings.

Rouge is mindful and considerate of others because most of Sonic's allies are. She isn't really the type to talk about herself or her feelings, however, no matter how much things deeply affect her. A part of that is her trying to be an enigma. A lady of mystery. Another part is that she's mature enough to not really wear her emotions on her sleeve.

Why can't she ask shadow?

... because she knows he doesn't want to talk about it? And that's fine.

If he needs someone to talk to she can be an ear but she isn't going to press him.

But that isn't for shadow, shadow is actually way more of a care bear than the other two.

Shadow cares about his home Mobius Sonic's World and will do what needs to be done to take care of it. Right now he thinks GUN's ideology is closer to ensuring the safety of the world than the Freedom Fighter's, so he sided with them. He cares in the sense that he believes GUN's mission will further his own.

If that changes sometime in the future then yeah he'll jump ship -- but it's not changing.

And if they aren't friends... then play into it.

Not being someone's friend doesn't make you their enemy. That's quite a jump.

They are pretty buddy-buddy though, and Shadow's whole deal is finding out what he personally believed in.

I guess I should elaborate on how I think their relationship works.

The members of Team Dark don't hate each other. They are not indifferent towards one another. They are considerate of each others feelings in the sense that they don't want any individual member to suddenly abandon the team over something trivial. They are all united by a common goal and wish to keep the team together to obtain it.

They will work together, but they won't go out for ice cream after. It's not because they hate each other but because they're not really compatible with one another outside of the structure of their work. That doesn't mean they don't care. It's just that they think they're incompatible.

Ever had a coworker that you thought was friendly and a good guy at work, but you couldn't imagine hanging out with them on the weekend? It's kind of like that.

I think the Freedom Fighters are different in the sense that yeah; they will go out and celebrate after a successful mission together. They would on a day off go over one of their team member's house and shoot the breeze. They go out for lunch or dinner together and don't mind hanging out with each other off the clock. Pretty much all of those things have happened in the book before at one point. Those are the types of things that show their relationships aren't strictly professional.

but like... they are totally the type for that in the games

I draw a distinction between the games and the comics. Some things really are different here.
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Re: A criticism of Team Dark in this comic

Postby Village » Fri Oct 09, 2015 9:37 am

Mordum wrote:Is the premise of this thread seriously based around not being able to comprehend certain people relate to others differently than other people do?

The premise of this thread is there characters that aren't communicating at a level that is appropriate for the issues at hand, and their normal amount isn't cutting it at the moment. Instead of coming off as a team, they come off as fake friends. I can comprehend just fine, how about you actually read and try to comprehend yourself. Or if you have an actually question you can ask it with out the sass

Thanks.

You will attract more bees with honey dude.

Mobotropolis wrote:
I'd rather not derail the thread.

If there is a PM function , could you PM me. I am genuinely interested. I personally think they are fine, my only issue with the characters the Archie ones is ... well their existence rather than any qualitative issue. I think they are fine but, I recently have begun to wander why are they even around at this point. Especially after this game focused reboot. But Lets not derail the thread.


Mobotropolis wrote:I was talking about her feelings.

Rouge is mindful and considerate of others because most of Sonic's allies are. She isn't really the type to talk about herself or her feelings, however, no matter how much things deeply affect her. A part of that is her trying to be an enigma. A lady of mystery. Another part is that she's mature enough to not really wear her emotions on her sleeve.

Except for those times she does? Except for that time with knuckles where she is just concerned about knuckles in an arc right after the whole ... alien thing. Which she be greatly concerned about

Mobotropolis wrote:... because she knows he doesn't want to talk about it? And that's fine.

If he needs someone to talk to she can be an ear but she isn't going to press him.

There is a point where you don't want to talk, and there is a point where you need to talk. This is that point. Also there is pattern of rouge and other characters forcing shadow to talk. In game and In comic, and well... that kind of goes against what you are saying. Not to be rude, I value your opinion, but it seems you have created a sort of fill in the blanks narrative for the team. And while that's fine, sonic " narrative" leaves open a lot of blank spaces.. but in this situation it kind goes against the characters you are trying to describe.

Rouge does the thing you says she doesn't do... in the knuckles and Shadow comic. Its right there.

Mobotropolis wrote:Shadow cares about his home Mobius Sonic's World and will do what needs to be done to take care of it. Right now he thinks GUN's ideology is closer to ensuring the safety of the world than the Freedom Fighter's, so he sided with them. He cares in the sense that he believes GUN's mission will further his own.

If that changes sometime in the future then yeah he'll jump ship -- but it's not changing.


These are things I said yes.

Mobotropolis wrote:Not being someone's friend doesn't make you their enemy. That's quite a jump.

No, but if you are a comic book character charged with keeping a narrative interesting, having people who do stuff is beneficial . I as a real human, interact with folk who don't care about me all the time. Everyday, but my actions aren't broadcasted or printed, the world cares little for what goes on in my life. But when you are comic character or a video game hero... having two folks around who don't give a crap , not contributing to something even on a narrative level. Is dragging useless characters around. And its one of my criticisms of team dark , I think shadow at this point is dragging rouge and omega around. And all 3 characters would benefit interacting with other folk. Besides their... " friends"


And again... if they aren't really friends... you can play into that. Maybe rouge doesn't care, maybe gun doesn't trust shadow, and omega is robot. Maybe shadow just leaves and finds help somewhere else. I don't know, Shadows and Knuckles communication at the end of that arc was actually interesting and maybe the two could bond of over both trying to find their way in the world. If shadow does go out and interact with other folks to clear his mind because rouge and Gun don't care. Play into that, that sounds interesting.

But as of currently , it comes bad writing. Because despite the narrative you have seemed to created for team dark, rouge and omega are supposed to care a great deal about shadow. And even if shadow is anti social, this warrants communication. And if they were good friends with shadow like they are supposed to be, they would know talking to the shadow will get you a response if you chip at it enough. A lot of times almost immediate , because he actually really wants someone to talk to. he's self loathing, and the recent events have played into to this, he sort of wants help. And I think friends, the friends they are suppoused to be would have picked up on that by now. But...they havent, and its odd.

Spoiler: show
I would totally read a comic where its just shadow teaming up with random folk.


Mobotropolis wrote:I guess I should elaborate on how I think their relationship works.
The members of Team Dark don't hate each other. They are not indifferent towards one another. They are considerate of each others feelings in the sense that they don't want any individual member to suddenly abandon the team over something trivial. They are all united by a common goal and wish to keep the team together to obtain it.

They will work together, but they won't go out for ice cream after. It's not because they hate each other but because they're not really compatible with one another outside of the structure of their work. That doesn't mean they don't care. It's just that they think they're incompatible.

Ever had a coworker that you thought was friendly and a good guy at work, but you couldn't imagine hanging out with them on the weekend? It's kind of like that.


If I worked for a PMC that housed a living breathing weapon of mass destruction, and he wasn't doing ok. I think the day you take that guy out for ice cream. Even if you don't like him, but because its probably the most professional thing in that situation. Lets make sure the guy who would be the least ok , for everyone if he wasn't ok... is ok. That on a professional level, is probably something that should be happening. Because they don't work in an office they work for a private military organization. On a " I'm your friend level " despite how anti social you are... thats also probably something that should be happening. Like rouge herself... describes during the Shadow the hedgehog arc, its rendered immediately irrelevant because mind control. But she strait up says, talk to people we are friends. She isn't doing that , and that's sort of the problem. But she does in fact describe the problem.

I draw a distinction between the games and the comics. Some things really are different here.

Maybe after this comic centric reboot while i believe somethings like the werehog, maybe shouldn't be things, maybe this should be a thing. Maybe it shouldn't be so different.
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Re: A criticism of Team Dark in this comic

Postby Shadowclaw98 » Fri Oct 09, 2015 10:15 am

I was talking about her feelings.


My bad, I misunderstood.
---

Anyway, why are you so determined on having the team split up? I don't have a problem with how Team Dark is written, it's suits there personalities, and the others that have commented don't seem to have a problem with how they're written either. The thing you bring up the most is that they aren't buddy-buddy with each other like the Freedom Fighters (if I've misinterpreted that, I apologize, that's how it's coming across to me), but that can be boiled down to the fact that Shadow, Rouge and Omega are largely solitary people.

It doesn't mean they don't care about each other or other people, they just know each other's boundaries, probably better than the Freedom Fighters with each other.

And Team Dark clearly care about each other's well being, as I started in my original reply with reasons to back it up which you promptly said

isn't exact the most relevant in the context you are using it in


As for the Rouge not asking Shadow how he is all the time...it's at the very least slightly implied that Shadow has some psychological problems due to everything that happened to him, I believe someone mentioned it earlier too. You can't force people with psychological problems to open up and talk about their feelings, believe me when I say it's a very hard thing to do, I speak from experience. It's something Shadow has to do on his terms. Like Mobotropolis said, although Rouge is clearly frustrated by the fact he doesn't, she knows he doesn't want to and that's fine

On the other hand, I do feel that Team Dark have been underused as a whole since the team was introduced in the comics. And, having thought more about GUN distrusting Shadow still it's actually a pretty good idea to have Shadow become a fugitive for some reason or other, with Rouge and Omega siding with him.
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Re: A criticism of Team Dark in this comic

Postby Village » Fri Oct 09, 2015 11:00 am

Shadowclaw98 wrote:Anyway, why are you so determined on having the team split up? I don't have a problem with how Team Dark is written, it's suits there personalities, and the others that have commented don't seem to have a problem with how they're written either. The thing you bring up the most is that they aren't buddy-buddy with each other like the Freedom Fighters (if I've misinterpreted that, I apologize, that's how it's coming across to me), but that can be boiled down to the fact that Shadow, Rouge and Omega are largely solitary people.

Maybe that isn't interesting narrative, maybe every interesting interaction each of those characters ever had are with not each other. And their friendship is built on a wobbly premise in the first place, and each character would be better served for characterization purposes if they weren't around each other. If them being solitary people is the problem. It isn't serving the narrative in any degree thats good so get rid of it. While I hate shadow's characterization in boom. HATE, even his detractors saw that @#$% was wack. I like the idea of shadow being by himself. It allows him to be more freelance and interact with more people. Same would go with rouge and omega, the best stuff is forcing different types of people to interact with one another. that is kind of what makes narrative... well interesting.

It doesn't mean they don't care about each other or other people, they just know each other's boundaries, probably better than the Freedom Fighters with each other.
Eh, there's boundries, and there is, "hey living weapon. Whats good in proverbial hood, because you doing bad, is everyone doing bad ."


Shadowclaw98 wrote:As for the Rouge not asking Shadow how he is all the time...it's at the very least slightly implied that Shadow has some psychological problems due to everything that happened to him, I believe someone mentioned it earlier too. You can't force people with psychological problems to open up and talk about their feelings, believe me when I say it's a very hard thing to do, I speak from experience. It's something Shadow has to do on his terms. Like Mobotropolis said, although Rouge is clearly frustrated by the fact he doesn't, she knows he doesn't want to and that's fine


Here's the thing right, I would love it of sonic went to the actual psychological issues shadow may have. I think that would be great, as a person who has had to see a therapist about somethings. That sounds interesting, but its a kids comic that is afraid to go into that sort of thing, so shadows issues are played off less as psychological problems and more of a dark past sort of thing.

Given that, and shadow is a living weapon. It makes more sense to force him to talk. You and me, the normal psychology stuff works. i mean not for everyone the unknowns are why fields like psychology still exists but there are at least tentative rules you could apply for us regular humans. And while sonic characters relatableness are some of the reasons they have garnered so much popularity, even in times of... low quality is a virtue. It isn't applicable for everything though, shadow is a living weapon. And as much as sucks for him to be reminded of, he's dangerious. And Checking on him , forcefully if beneficiary is something that kind of should be happening. If super man goes off the wall best believe Bruce and Diana are going to be the first one up at his fortress of solitude trying to see what the @#$% is up. Ok maybe less Diana but bruce is going to have a talk with him. And each other would do the same, because they understand despite being solitary people with their own issues, not only are they friends, they have a great deal of power and responsibility than everyone else. And not only that they know if one of them messes up all of their asses is in the fryer. Shadow is a living weapon, Rouge is a thief who has shown to throw her mission away to get what she wants, and Omega really isn't even apart of gun. They are on some levels baby sitting eachother so they don't mess this up. Which is even more incentive to be inquisitive. They are on the most tentative of bases with GUN , and the beginning of the shadow the hedgehog comic reaffirms this when the commander take rouge and omega to the side and tell them not to trust shadow on this mission. So it not ok, because not only does it not make sense as far as characterization is concerned, it doesn't make sense professionally or narrative. Gun seems quite quick to turn on some folks. Why a conversation isn't being had.

this checking on characters well being because of the power they wield isn't some new thing I have made up. Its happened for decade, and those moments, just talking person to person usually serve to give the characters more characterization. And shadow... will just strait talk to you, despite him putting on mean fronts and scary faces. Anyone whos' interacted with the guy knows not only will he talk to you, you can probably talk the guy into a favor. He just has an intimidating exterior, and if relic can do that. I believe at least rouge can. And I believe that she should.

Shadowclaw98 wrote:On the other hand, I do feel that Team Dark have been underused as a whole since the team was introduced in the comics. And, having thought more about GUN distrusting Shadow still it's actually a pretty good idea to have Shadow become a fugitive for some reason or other, with Rouge and Omega siding with him.
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I like the idea that Shadow is framed by gun or something in combination with the alien bafoonery, and rouge and omega aren't on his side. I like the idea just being put in a situation that challenges his worldview. Like those solders weren't fond of shadow , maybe they put something together to with some definite looking proof that causes shadow to just become a fugitive. I think that would be interesting, shadow and rouge could fight, air their grevences that sort of thing. Like even the freedom fighters and everyone is against him, or he finds a new friend in a weird place.

If anyone is a scape goat right now, shadow is at all times especially now. Is probably the scapingest scape goat that ever scaped a goat.
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Re: A criticism of Team Dark in this comic

Postby Shadowclaw98 » Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:24 pm

I always put the Commander being suspicious down to the fact that Shadow was susceptible to being used by the Black Arms *shrugs*

The more I talk about this story idea, the more I wanna see it. Plus, maybe we'd get some of the characterization you want :wink:
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Re: A criticism of Team Dark in this comic

Postby Village » Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:51 pm

I wanted a fugitive shadow, Steve Rodgers type story for SOOOO LOOONG.

That is on my story wish list. Like the omega and blaze flame power hour.
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Re: A criticism of Team Dark in this comic

Postby Shadowclaw98 » Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:57 pm

I second the Omega/Blaze Fire Power Hour
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