Picking up Sticks

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Re: Picking up Sticks

Postby FancyFool » Fri Sep 04, 2015 1:33 pm

I'm very mixed on that thought, slightly on the negative side I'm afraid. On one hand, I do like Sticks' character concept and I see good potential for her in the main games/comic. Heck, I'm even using her in this fic I'm making (that will never get finished) in a way that makes her a main character. But on the other hand...

The games and comics are already filled with loads of characters and right now, in the games, all those characters are being neglected much needed screen time and their relevancy/importance to the games are steadily dropping each year. I'd be all for including Sticks into the main games/comics but it does risk taking away much needed focus from the characters that already exist and that is a risk I don't think should be taken. Not until SEGA finds a way to use them effectively (and this being SEGA, we all know that will never happen).

On a more personal note directly related to the above concern, another issue I see with Sticks being included into the official games/comic is her relationship with Amy. As I've made it clear to an admittedly annoying degree, I'm a huge fan of Cream and I adore her own friendship with Amy. I think it's a good female counterpart to Sonic and Tails' own friendship and though it hasn't been portrayed just as well as Sonic and Tails (no thanks to SEGA botching everything involving Amy and/or Cream), I still see great potential in Amy and Cream's friendship. Now if Sticks, who was made to be Amy's "BFF" in Sonic Boom, were to be included in the games, then there is a great chance SEGA will have Sticks fully replace Cream as Amy's sidekick and thus completely rid Cream of any relevancy in the games. Obviously, that is something I do NOT want to happen. Of course, Sticks' presence in the games doesn't guarantee that will happen and I do have an idea of how Sticks can remain Amy's friend without replacing Cream (though fans of Big aren't going to like it) but of course SEGA isn't going to think of that idea, let alone consider it, and given how much SEGA is distancing Cream from Amy and how much more popular Sticks is over Cream... No way man. Just no way. Count me out.

So basically, I want to say I would be happy for Sticks to officially join the main games/comic but those two concerns makes me not want her to be included at all. At least not until SEGA starts getting their act together so those two concerns will no longer be an issue (and again, it is highly doubtful that will ever happen).
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Re: Picking up Sticks

Postby Azul » Fri Sep 04, 2015 1:42 pm

BlazeHeatnix wrote:
Mordum wrote:
BlazeHeatnix wrote:I haven't talked to a single Sonic fan that actually likes Sticks. Not one.


We are literally talking to each other right now.


You're not a Sonic fan.

Mordum wrote:Uh.


(hearty laughter) Because a non Sonic fan would join a Sonic forum to be ironic, right? Its even more ironic that you have some disdain for Sticks but you would entertain a banner parodying her.

On topic, Marine and Sticks are two totally different characters. Like, they have zilch in common aside from their similar designs. Marine's exclusion to the poll can be chalked up to being a one-shot while Sticks has been given so much publicity across media that all she needs her own cereal to because a mainstream hit. I also find it super annoying that she's beeing given so much publicity like she's some super prominent character when she's not even that prominent in her resident franchise.

I'm on the fence about Sticks. While I don't hate her, I'm not all to crazy about her. Realistically, I don't see her jumping to the main series. First of all, Boom doesn't even use her to full capacity. Some episodes have her completely absent even though the rest of the gang is there. A few episodes even have her there but completely silent. I'm not exactly optimistic about the main series' competencey in fully utilizing Sticks to her full capacity since they haven't been doing so with their own characters for a long time and has even delegated a once colorfuo, diverse cast of allies to glorified cheer leaders and side quest givers.
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Re: Picking up Sticks

Postby akessel92 » Fri Sep 04, 2015 1:53 pm

Azul wrote:
BlazeHeatnix wrote:
Mordum wrote:
BlazeHeatnix wrote:I haven't talked to a single Sonic fan that actually likes Sticks. Not one.


We are literally talking to each other right now.


You're not a Sonic fan.

Mordum wrote:Uh.


(hearty laughter) Because a non Sonic fan would join a Sonic forum to be ironic, right? Its even more ironic that you have some disdain for Sticks but you would entertain a banner parodying her.

On topic, Marine and Sticks are two totally different characters. Like, they have zilch in common aside from their similar designs. Marine's exclusion to the poll can be chalked up to being a one-shot while Sticks has been given so much publicity across media that all she needs her own cereal to because a mainstream hit. I also find it super annoying that she's beeing given so much publicity like she's some super prominent character when she's not even that prominent in her resident franchise.

I'm on the fence about Sticks. While I don't hate her, I'm not all to crazy about her. Realistically, I don't see her jumping to the main series. First of all, Boom doesn't even use her to full capacity. Some episodes have her completely absent even though the rest of the gang is there. A few episodes even have her there but completely silent. I'm not exactly optimistic about the main series' competencey in fully utilizing Sticks to her full capacity since they haven't been doing so with their own characters for a long time and has even delegated a once colorfuo, diverse cast of allies to glorified cheer leaders and side quest givers.

Not to mention only unlockable via roulette or paying an obsurd amount of time and money to do so.
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Re: Picking up Sticks

Postby Kureejii Lea » Fri Sep 04, 2015 2:15 pm

BlazeHeatnix wrote:
Mordum wrote:
BlazeHeatnix wrote:I haven't talked to a single Sonic fan that actually likes Sticks. Not one.


We are literally talking to each other right now.


You're not a Sonic fan.


You really should know better by now when it comes to attacking people personally for their opinions. Additionally I would hope that you're capable of understanding that your opinion isn't fact, or that the idea that there are literally no fans of Sticks is ridiculous. Knock it off.
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Re: Picking up Sticks

Postby Toby » Fri Sep 04, 2015 2:27 pm

I love Sticks and certainly wouldn't mind her joining the main cast in the modern games and comic.
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Re: Picking up Sticks

Postby The KKM » Fri Sep 04, 2015 3:31 pm

GentlemanX wrote:The only real obvious choice is the Freedom Fighters (...) modify Sticks to better fit the Freedom Fighters


Image

If she's brought over, have her be the supporting cast of someone else. Silver. Pair her with Silver, that'd be fun, a conspiracy theorist and a time traveller, think of the plots that could make.
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Re: Picking up Sticks

Postby Mordum » Fri Sep 04, 2015 3:32 pm

The KKM wrote:
If she's brought over, have her be the supporting cast of someone else. Silver. Pair her with Silver, that'd be fun, a conspiracy theorist and a time traveller, think of the plots that could make.


This guy knows what's up.
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Re: Picking up Sticks

Postby BlazeHeatnix » Fri Sep 04, 2015 3:34 pm

Azul wrote:Its even more ironic that you have some disdain for Sticks but you would entertain a banner parodying her.


Let me make it clear: I don't HATE Sticks as a character. I hate the way she's been handled. I like her design, and her gimmick had potential. Heck I like the boomerang thing. But everything she's had written for her, I've just cringed. And it's gotten to the point where I'd rather she just go away. She'd need some serious tweaking before she'd be able to fit in with the rest of the cast. I'd find her so much funnier if she was like Dale Gribble. Still a conspiracy theorist, still insane, but much more subtle. Instead she relies on random quips that are almost like catchphrases, and spastic behavior because some studio executives thought kids would find that funny. And maybe the little ones do, but Sonic characters usually have a lot more appeal than that.

It's kind of like Big. Big used to be universally despised by the fanbase. But after Ian's version, and the parodies by SomecallmeJohnny, Sonic Shorts and the official Sonic twitter, he's become hilarious. But without the nostalgia of Sonic Adventure amongst the fans, there's no way that would've happened otherwise. It'd take several years to replicate the scenario with Sticks, and even then it just wouldn't be the same. Big symbolizes what Sonic games used to be like, and we laugh at him because they're not like that anymore. But the Boom franchise started less than a year ago with games that were universally panned and thus plunged Sonic into another dark age, and a cartoon series that at best is just entertaining. And now SEGA is in jeopardy because of it. So Sticks represents that, and that affects people's opinions of her. I know you think that's dumb and people should like her for what she is, but the way human beings think, that's just not possible.

So I think Sticks needs to lay dormant for several years like Big did. Or be cameo-exclusive. Because right now, the majority don't like her for, contrary to what people in this thread believe, legitimate reasons.
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Re: Picking up Sticks

Postby GentlemanX » Fri Sep 04, 2015 3:51 pm

The KKM wrote:If she's brought over, have her be the supporting cast of someone else. Silver. Pair her with Silver, that'd be fun, a conspiracy theorist and a time traveller, think of the plots that could make.

I said in my post that she could be somewhere else, and put my random suggestion in spoilers because of the fan idea rule. I suggested the Freedom Fighters because that's the set of characters she's with in the Boom series. It's the same reason Cream is part of the Freedom Fighters, because in the game continuity she typically hung around Sonic, Amy etc. That was my logic in saying Sticks with the Freedom Fighters made sense.

I don't see the problem in modifying her character if she were to be with the Freedom Fighters though. There's a way of writing Sticks like Sticks without being so in your face about it as she is in Boom. It'd just be writing the character to fit the narrative environment she finds herself in. Sticks with Sonic and Tails in Boom should act differently than Sticks with Sonic and Tails in ArchieSonic. Even if she were identical to her Boom self, the difference in characterization between Boom Sonic and Tails and Freedom Fighter Sonic and Tails makes that dynamic change necessary.
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Re: Picking up Sticks

Postby The KKM » Fri Sep 04, 2015 4:18 pm

It's more that the whole logic displayed is just depressing. "We want a character. Is she main character? Must to be a Freedom Fighter then! Wait, in that case, we need to rewrite her! Go ahead".
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Re: Picking up Sticks

Postby SonicBlueRanger » Fri Sep 04, 2015 4:29 pm

BlazeHeatnix wrote:
Mordum wrote:
BlazeHeatnix wrote:I haven't talked to a single Sonic fan that actually likes Sticks. Not one.


We are literally talking to each other right now.


You're not a Sonic fan.


Why are you so hostile Blaze? Seriously?

Anyway I love Sticks and would love to see her pop up in more places just all around.
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Re: Picking up Sticks

Postby Spin » Fri Sep 04, 2015 4:30 pm

To begin with, I'm disappointed the title of the topic isn't simply "Pick up Sticks".

While Sticks is a character I'd like to see in the comic. To what extent is the question. Bean is a wonderful character strictly because he works in small doses. When force feed, those usually tend to be his weakest appearances. So while I could see her functioning in the comic, there's no way I'd want her joining the Freedom Fighters or anything outrageous on a permanent basis as her paranoid antics risk getting old. But appearing for the right amount of time and in a good story arc, she could shine.

Preferably a story that doesn't amount to her breaking a broom.
Last edited by Spin on Fri Sep 04, 2015 4:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Picking up Sticks

Postby Azul » Fri Sep 04, 2015 4:32 pm

BlazeHeatnix wrote:
Azul wrote:Its even more ironic that you have some disdain for Sticks but you would entertain a banner parodying her.


Let me make it clear: I don't HATE Sticks as a character. I hate the way she's been handled. I like her design, and her gimmick had potential. Heck I like the boomerang thing. But everything she's had written for her, I've just cringed. And it's gotten to the point where I'd rather she just go away. She'd need some serious tweaking before she'd be able to fit in with the rest of the cast. I'd find her so much funnier if she was like Dale Gribble. Still a conspiracy theorist, still insane, but much more subtle. Instead she relies on random quips that are almost like catchphrases, and spastic behavior because some studio executives thought kids would find that funny. And maybe the little ones do, but Sonic characters usually have a lot more appeal than that.

It's kind of like Big. Big used to be universally despised by the fanbase. But after Ian's version, and the parodies by SomecallmeJohnny, Sonic Shorts and the official Sonic twitter, he's become hilarious. But without the nostalgia of Sonic Adventure amongst the fans, there's no way that would've happened otherwise. It'd take several years to replicate the scenario with Sticks, and even then it just wouldn't be the same. Big symbolizes what Sonic games used to be like, and we laugh at him because they're not like that anymore. But the Boom franchise started less than a year ago with games that were universally panned and thus plunged Sonic into another dark age, and a cartoon series that at best is just entertaining. And now SEGA is in jeopardy because of it. So Sticks represents that, and that affects people's opinions of her. I know you think that's dumb and people should like her for what she is, but the way human beings think, that's just not possible.

So I think Sticks needs to lay dormant for several years like Big did. Or be cameo-exclusive. Because right now, the majority don't like her for, contrary to what people in this thread believe, legitimate reasons.


The only reason Big was so heavily criticised, in the states at least, for so long was because there wasn't a writer who gave him the added appeal. Point being; Sticks doesn't need a decade long vaycay. She just needs to be handled better. Putting her on a bus isn't going to make her more or less likeable.
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Re: Picking up Sticks

Postby GentlemanX » Fri Sep 04, 2015 5:08 pm

I'd also add that personal preference is always going to rule out in situations like Big and Sticks. There are people who still hate Big simply because of the character that he is. I've loved all of Big's appearances, SA1 especially. In a similar vein, there are people who vehemently hate the kind of character Sticks is, and just as many find her to be a highlight because of that same reason.

We're talking about a very divisive character that creates opposite reactions from different people.
The KKM wrote:It's more that the whole logic displayed is just depressing. "We want a character. Is she main character? Must to be a Freedom Fighter then! Wait, in that case, we need to rewrite her! Go ahead".

I completely agree with the merit of that. "People like this character, so let's introduce this character, of course we'll have to change her character." That's why there's always a careful line that needs to be mediated when incorporating something from a new line into an established one. You want to stay as true as possible to the original intention while also making logical changes given the format of the other material. I'll use Hun from TMNT for example. The character from the 2k3 series was popular and so has appeared in the 2k12 series, but he's been changed quite a bit to fit with the goals of the current show's team. I personally like both, but there's definitely people who would find the new Hun worse or better than the original depending on the type of person they are.

If I can go into a fair amount of detail for a fan idea, I'd like to go over how I would add Sticks to the main comic if she were to become a Freedom Fighter.
Spoiler: show
I'd first introduce Sticks during a mission where Sonic and friends landed from the Sky Patrol. The plot would be about something else, and Sticks would just be in the area, ultimately helping Sonic and company succeed in whatever mission they were after. Then I'd either have Sonic and company invite Sticks to join them and have her accept or stowaway aboard the ship and have the Freedom Fighters accept she was coming along. Everything up till now would have Sticks behaving as she does in the Boom series, minus 4th wall breaking. In her early Freedom Fighter days, she'd be a sort of counter to Cream. Whereas Cream is polite and thoughtful Sticks would be wild and impulsive. I see the two of them working together on the Sky Patrol until the Freedom Fighters can gauge her fighting capability to highlight how opposite they are. Then you have her big break, something happens that proves she can fight and she becomes part of the deployment groups. This would further lead development for Cream, who sees her newbie going out before she gets a chance to. Sticks meanwhile is out in the thick of things, but still as impetuous as ever. But this flaw starts showing and Sally tells her to get it together, which she of course ignores. Then you have a breaking point, something major happens like in "Unthinkable" and it's her fault. Realizing this, she realizes the consequences of her actions and rethinks how she does things. For a while, she's scared and apologetic, not sure what to do. But she gets her moment of redemption, has some heart to hearts, and eventually becomes more lively again. Now she resembles her old self again, being a witty goofball who's sort of the maverick of the group. But she's learned, she's not as out of control and self indulgent, just fun without going overboard.

There's how I would pitch utilizing Sticks as a Freedom Fighter in the main continuity. It's a super rough draft, sure, but I think it stays true to the character Sticks is while having her function in a different type of story and being in the position she would be in.
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Re: Picking up Sticks

Postby Penguin God » Fri Sep 04, 2015 5:38 pm

Sticks as a Freedom Fighter seems like such a waste, and I don't even like her all that much (she is okay, but not amazing.) The Silver idea is fine, in that it lets her stay what she is in the show: a loony conspiracy theorist who mostly just hangs out and makes jokes. She's a terrible fit for a soldier, and she hasno need to appear all the time.
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