So...what old reality stuff is canon?

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So...what old reality stuff is canon?

Postby Spectre the Hechidnat » Mon Aug 24, 2015 5:41 pm

Given Worlds Unite's revelation that Worlds Collide still happened-albeit with some changes-in the new reality, I was curious as to what else from the old canon might still be a part of the new. Given Nicole's mention of "the first Genesis Wave" back in 252 and the fact that Wily made contact with Eggman via the blue Chaos Emerald, it seems likely that Genesis occurred in this reality as well. But is that it, or are there any other story arcs that still have a place in the continuity with some modifications? Furthermore, how do the rest of the games fit in?
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Re: So...what old reality stuff is canon?

Postby SonicBlueRanger » Mon Aug 24, 2015 5:45 pm

I don't think it's really the same thing but Amy was present when Antoine purposed to Bunnie in both continuities.
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Re: So...what old reality stuff is canon?

Postby akessel92 » Mon Aug 24, 2015 6:14 pm

And Nicole and Sally did some stargazing when she assumed her holo-Lynx form.
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Re: So...what old reality stuff is canon?

Postby Meliden » Mon Aug 24, 2015 6:26 pm

Are we forgetting the coup that kicked off this whole situation? Sure, it resolved itself before we got to the current point, but we still hit most of the narrative beats.
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Re: So...what old reality stuff is canon?

Postby Mobotropolis » Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:41 pm

... I thought everything from before still happened but no one remembers it unless triggered.

The stuff that the characters are " remembering " now didn't really happen, but for the purposes of the story and because we will never revisit previous events we may as well consider it canon.
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Re: So...what old reality stuff is canon?

Postby SimonSays » Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:23 pm

I was confused at the beginning, since I remember when the characters returned from the Genesis Wave someone was surprised to hear rumors that the roboticizer was working again. (Axel I think?) That sounds like it's referencing Mecha Sally, but that didn't happen in the new continuity.

So who got roboticized, and why didn't the roboticizer not work in the first place if the BEM weren't involved?
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Re: So...what old reality stuff is canon?

Postby Meliden » Tue Aug 25, 2015 2:07 am

Mobotropolis wrote:... I thought everything from before still happened but no one remembers it unless triggered.

The stuff that the characters are " remembering " now didn't really happen, but for the purposes of the story and because we will never revisit previous events we may as well consider it canon.


No, the new events did happen in this new reality, the story now treats Sonic as if e'd always been there and the flashes of the old reality were more him temporarily seeing a different reality after WC.
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Re: So...what old reality stuff is canon?

Postby MetalSkulkBane » Tue Aug 25, 2015 3:49 am

Mobotropolis wrote:... I thought everything from before still happened but no one remembers it unless triggered.

The stuff that the characters are " remembering " now didn't really happen, but for the purposes of the story and because we will never revisit previous events we may as well consider it canon.


So what, you think that King Acorn doesn't remember anything except last few weeks?

Personally I'm assuming that nothing is cannon except for Genesis, Collide (sorta), parts that are strictly from the games and Satam parts from all those origin issues. Who knows, maybe some Satam episodes are cannon.
One thing that keeps me guessing is Blaze and her world. She seemed to remember Treasure Team Tango, so either that story happened (which isn't impossible, all characters live in both continuities) or she simply remembers old world. Then again there is Bean (who might remember stuff by same rule as Sticks does) and Captain Metal. In theory Sonic Universe #1 could happen in Reboot, but we have this "only one Metal Sonic" rule from Sega.
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Re: So...what old reality stuff is canon?

Postby TheFatPanda » Tue Aug 25, 2015 5:04 am

Mobotropolis wrote:... I thought everything from before still happened but no one remembers it unless triggered.

The stuff that the characters are " remembering " now didn't really happen, but for the purposes of the story and because we will never revisit previous events we may as well consider it canon.


No no no, we mean stuff that happened in the new timeline that also happened in the old, but with varying details.

Things that comes to mind:
-Eggman's coup and King Acorn being banished to the resident pocket zone.
-Antoine's parents dying.
-Bunnie's robot parts being upgraded.
-Ant and Bunnie's marriage.
-Nicole getting her physical form and seeing the stars.
-Sonic Adventure and Sonic Adventure 2.
-Genesis.
-Eggman meeting Wily.
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Re: So...what old reality stuff is canon?

Postby Mobotropolis » Tue Aug 25, 2015 6:34 am

... but the thing that makes me question that was that Bunnie didn't have her Wedding Ring until after she remembered. That seemed to imply that her getting married didn't happen until she remembered that it did.

I sort of thought -
Spoiler: show
- that there were actually Three Worlds in play here.

Mobius Prime
This " New Mobius "
And the World that resulted from them merging

So Bunnie was married in Prime and not married in New Mobius. In the Merged World she remembers that she's married, but the events played out a bit differently than what she remembered.

So what, you think that King Acorn doesn't remember anything except last few weeks?

More that everything that he remembers didn't actually happen.

Only the events in the last few weeks actually happened.

For the purposes of the story everything that the characters remember could and should be considered canon, but that didn't mean that everything that happened before didn't happen. It's just not relevant to the current situation.
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Re: So...what old reality stuff is canon?

Postby Mordum » Tue Aug 25, 2015 7:17 am

Canon is a collection of details meant to represent a point of view whether in narrative or culture.

The fact that the first reboot story is explicitly about remembering and forgetting the previous universe means there had to be a previous universe for this to occur: therefore that entire prior universe IS canon. All of it. The first story of the reboot is dependent on its existence.

The problem with this conversation is pointed out pretty aptly by Mobotropolis. The universe before this one AND the memories of the characters are both canonical details. One, by virtue of how the story was executed, requires the other, even if one is largely irrelevant after the opening story.
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Re: So...what old reality stuff is canon?

Postby ChaosJam » Tue Aug 25, 2015 7:36 am

Mobotropolis wrote:... but the thing that makes me question that was that Bunnie didn't have her Wedding Ring until after she remembered. That seemed to imply that her getting married didn't happen until she remembered that it did.

I sort of thought -
Spoiler: show
- that there were actually Three Worlds in play here.

Mobius Prime
This " New Mobius "
And the World that resulted from them merging

So Bunnie was married in Prime and not married in New Mobius. In the Merged World she remembers that she's married, but the events played out a bit differently than what she remembered.

So what, you think that King Acorn doesn't remember anything except last few weeks?

More that everything that he remembers didn't actually happen.

Only the events in the last few weeks actually happened.

For the purposes of the story everything that the characters remember could and should be considered canon, but that didn't mean that everything that happened before didn't happen. It's just not relevant to the current situation.

First, the whole wedding ring thing was dismissed as artist error. Ian has said that Bunnie and Antonie were married in the new continuity just like the old one.

Second, what you need to do is consider the whole pre-reboot continuity as gone, erased, what have you. Yes it did happen but it's been replaced. Some similar events happened in both but we are in a whole new universe. We were in Universe A (pre-reboot), now we are in Universe 1 (post-reboot). I use A and 1 because it's still the Prime Universe only changed slightly. Though confusing, the whole past memories thing were a side effect of the Super Genesis Wave. Foreign memories from a previous prime universe seeped into the main characters of this new Prime Universe. For a moment, they thought they were these other versions of themselves (the Universe A characters). The effects faded and those memories disappeared, sort of like fog clearing and cementing that Universe 1 is the new Prime Universe.
Like I said, it was confusing and still is somewhat but between Ian's explanations and other fan explanations on this forum, that's the best way to look at it.
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Re: So...what old reality stuff is canon?

Postby MetalSkulkBane » Tue Aug 25, 2015 1:06 pm

Mordum wrote:Canon is a collection of details meant to represent a point of view whether in narrative or culture.

The fact that the first reboot story is explicitly about remembering and forgetting the previous universe means there had to be a previous universe for this to occur: therefore that entire prior universe IS canon. All of it. The first story of the reboot is dependent on its existence.

The problem with this conversation is pointed out pretty aptly by Mobotropolis. The universe before this one AND the memories of the characters are both canonical details. One, by virtue of how the story was executed, requires the other, even if one is largely irrelevant after the opening story.


Okay, not "cannon", but "still happened in rebooted universe". No one likes nitpickers Mordum. Just ask people about me. :P
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Re: So...what old reality stuff is canon?

Postby Mordum » Tue Aug 25, 2015 1:22 pm

You're not my REAL dad!
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Re: So...what old reality stuff is canon?

Postby LBD_Nytetrayn » Tue Aug 25, 2015 5:11 pm

MetalSkulkBane wrote:
Mordum wrote:Canon is a collection of details meant to represent a point of view whether in narrative or culture.

The fact that the first reboot story is explicitly about remembering and forgetting the previous universe means there had to be a previous universe for this to occur: therefore that entire prior universe IS canon. All of it. The first story of the reboot is dependent on its existence.

The problem with this conversation is pointed out pretty aptly by Mobotropolis. The universe before this one AND the memories of the characters are both canonical details. One, by virtue of how the story was executed, requires the other, even if one is largely irrelevant after the opening story.


Okay, not "cannon", but "still happened in rebooted universe". No one likes nitpickers Mordum. Just ask people about me. :P


"Canon," one "n." I think the only old reality stuff that's still cannon is Omega.

--LBD "Nytetrayn"
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