nu252 Nemeses/Rivals

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Re: nu252 Nemeses/Rivals

Postby jazzflower92 » Tue Jul 21, 2015 3:29 pm

Yeah, the Hooligans make better rivals to the Chaotix than the Fearsome Foursome did in the pre-reboot.

http://archiesonic.wikia.com/wiki/Fearsome_Foursome
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Re: nu252 Nemeses/Rivals

Postby Meliden » Tue Jul 21, 2015 3:34 pm

To be fair, the Hooligans weren't such appropriate rivals for the Chaotix back when the Fearsome Foursome were creeping around, because the Chaotix were fundamentally different. Pitching mercenaries who do anything for a buck against a group of friends who are basically there to bolster Knuckles' duties doesn't work as well as pitching mercenaries who yadda yadda against detectives who will do anything within the law and their moral compass for a buck, and can even show non-material driven kindness.
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Re: nu252 Nemeses/Rivals

Postby jazzflower92 » Tue Jul 21, 2015 3:49 pm

Meliden wrote:To be fair, the Hooligans weren't such appropriate rivals for the Chaotix back when the Fearsome Foursome were creeping around, because the Chaotix were fundamentally different. Pitching mercenaries who do anything for a buck against a group of friends who are basically there to bolster Knuckles' duties doesn't work as well as pitching mercenaries who yadda yadda against detectives who will do anything within the law and their moral compass for a buck, and can even show non-material driven kindness.


Oh, yeah in the pre-reboot the Chaotix were more like the Freedom Fighters in structure. In my opinion, the Team Hooligan set up actually really helped set Nack, Bark, and Bean as more prominent villains in the comic. I know Nack hopped from team to team in the pre-reboot but I really feel that he jives well with the Team Hooligan gig. Mostly because with most of the other teams he just fades into the background while on Team Hooligan is the leader of the gang.
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Re: nu252 Nemeses/Rivals

Postby akessel92 » Tue Jul 21, 2015 4:14 pm

I'm hoping Antoine gets a rival. He did with patch in the pre-reboot. I'm hoping there can be another sword to sword fighter.
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Re: nu252 Nemeses/Rivals

Postby MetalSkulkBane » Tue Jul 21, 2015 6:05 pm

Azul wrote:Two of the rivalries listed I find most note worthy are Chaotix vs Hooligans and Shadow vs Eclipse. I see Team Hooligans as the anti-Chaotix; mercenaries and hired hitmen just looking to make a quick buck under any circumstances.

Well, technically Chaotix are hitmen too. Remeber Sonic Heroes "we don't turn any job that pays" policy? Even now Chaotix are being paid for saving the word (which makes you wonder why they aren't being financed like Freedom Fighters)
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Re: nu252 Nemeses/Rivals

Postby Meliden » Tue Jul 21, 2015 6:25 pm

That policy only goes so far. It's explicitly stated that it has to be lawful, so assassination is probably a no-no (ironic, given a ninja's usual role).

As for why they're not financed, well, the FFs probably either came across them by chance or Knuckles said that some penniless reptiles were looking for jobs and they use them to their advantage for finding stuff on occasion since they're doing detective jobs, not actually trying to be heroes unless the situation gets dire. Really, the FFs still owe them a Chaos Emerald after all.
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Re: nu252 Nemeses/Rivals

Postby MetalSkulkBane » Tue Jul 21, 2015 7:31 pm

Meliden wrote:That policy only goes so far. It's explicitly stated that it has to be lawful, so assassination is probably a no-no (ironic, given a ninja's usual role).


Stated where? In game they helped Eggman, despite the fact that Vector knew it has him, and they wanted to paid later.
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Re: nu252 Nemeses/Rivals

Postby Meliden » Tue Jul 21, 2015 7:39 pm

It's been stated in several of Vector's profiles, and since he's the boss that makes the business policies, that'll apply to the Chaotix overall.

What was Eggman doing in that situation? Being busy sitting around in a cell? Certainly not anything illegal. Just because they work within the law doesn't mean they won't help out those less scrupulous, they've done a job for Rouge as well, and her profession outside of spying is "doing illegal stuff".
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Re: nu252 Nemeses/Rivals

Postby Azul » Wed Jul 22, 2015 10:39 am

MetalSkulkBane wrote:
Meliden wrote:That policy only goes so far. It's explicitly stated that it has to be lawful, so assassination is probably a no-no (ironic, given a ninja's usual role).


Stated where? In game they helped Eggman, despite the fact that Vector knew it has him, and they wanted to paid later.


Plus he figured it out well after accepting the job. And its not like he hired them to do dirty work.
Meliden wrote:
Azul wrote:Also, I wouldn't consider Captain Metal a rival really. There's nothing really to parallel. I believe he's more of a possible recurring enemy, that is if he's even in the new252.


Captain Metal has only ever existed in the nu252 (as Captain Metal).


Noted. I thought Captain Metal was the refurbishd Metal Sonic from the first Sonic Universe arc. And since the reboot does what reboots are notorious for... But it looks like I thought wrong.
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Re: nu252 Nemeses/Rivals

Postby N'egga Man » Wed Jul 22, 2015 1:49 pm

Captain Metal's just in that weird void of "he was a former Metal Sonic, but he also CAN'T be a former Metal Sonic". Though I can think of at least one way around it.
Spoiler: show
*coughcough*BoomMetalSonic*coughcough*
I dunno, I guess maybe he's the closest thing that Blaze has to a rival not named Sonic? But I figured he's supposed to be more of a rival to Captain Whisker than Blaze.
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Re: nu252 Nemeses/Rivals

Postby Spectre the Hechidnat » Wed Jul 22, 2015 1:58 pm

akessel92 wrote:I'm hoping Antoine gets a rival. He did with patch in the pre-reboot. I'm hoping there can be another sword to sword fighter.


You and me both, my friend. It'd also be kinda cool to see Omega get a rival, but it would probably be kinda tricky. None of the comics E-100s really seem like they'd work, given that Omega was created after all of them and thus is presumably superior. I could half see Team Dark squaring off with the Babylon Rogues on this front, but Shadow already has Eclipse and Jet's big motivation is all about beating Sonic anyway.
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Re: nu252 Nemeses/Rivals

Postby MetalSkulkBane » Wed Jul 22, 2015 1:59 pm

Now we're blurish the line between "rival" and "enemy". Do we think about rival as 'guy who wants to beat you in this discipline' or 'personal enemy'?
Because in second case, Eggman can be a rival to Sonic, at least in Preebot.
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Re: nu252 Nemeses/Rivals

Postby Azul » Wed Jul 22, 2015 2:43 pm

N'egga Man wrote:Captain Metal's just in that weird void of "he was a former Metal Sonic, but he also CAN'T be a former Metal Sonic". Though I can think of at least one way around it.
Spoiler: show
*coughcough*BoomMetalSonic*coughcough*
I dunno, I guess maybe he's the closest thing that Blaze has to a rival not named Sonic? But I figured he's supposed to be more of a rival to Captain Whisker than Blaze.


Spoiler: show
Yeah... no. The reboot was done long before Boom was even announced. Also, this Metal Sonic is just as tall as a standard MS. Although I don't think the artists really pay much attention to the Boom crew's heights since in the crossover, Sticks, who should be taller than a majority of the cast by about a head, is drawn shorter than Prime Sonic.
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Re: nu252 Nemeses/Rivals

Postby N'egga Man » Wed Jul 22, 2015 3:01 pm

Azul wrote:
N'egga Man wrote:Captain Metal's just in that weird void of "he was a former Metal Sonic, but he also CAN'T be a former Metal Sonic". Though I can think of at least one way around it.
Spoiler: show
*coughcough*BoomMetalSonic*coughcough*
I dunno, I guess maybe he's the closest thing that Blaze has to a rival not named Sonic? But I figured he's supposed to be more of a rival to Captain Whisker than Blaze.


Spoiler: show
Yeah... no. The reboot was done long before Boom was even announced. Also, this Metal Sonic is just as tall as a standard MS. Although I don't think the artists really pay much attention to the Boom crew's heights since in the crossover, Sticks, who should be taller than a majority of the cast by about a head, is drawn shorter than Prime Sonic.

Eh, it's moreso just a head-canon of mine, I don't expect it to ever be addressed. I'm more interested to see what he might look like if/when he ever returns. Anyway, I'm trying to think of some possible rivalries that haven't been brought up yet... but I'm drawing a blank. Then again, the current world is still quite young, even now.
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Re: nu252 Nemeses/Rivals

Postby Mr.Unsmiley » Wed Jul 22, 2015 3:51 pm

Azul wrote:
Meliden wrote:Captain Metal has only ever existed in the nu252 (as Captain Metal).


Noted. I thought Captain Metal was the refurbishd Metal Sonic from the first Sonic Universe arc.


he is. I think what Meliden means is that the -idea- of Captain Metal, i.e. his personality and his design as a pirate, are unique to the nu252; he never assumed that form prior to the reboot.

of course, his existence is also a hot bed of continuity concerns (I'm not in any position to speak for Yardley, but I'm wondering if, as someone who's not usually on writing duties, maybe he wasn't fully aware of the ramifications of the "only 1 Metal Sonic" mandate and the nature of the reboot, and as such he may have overlooked that the Metal Sonic from that arc shouldn't still be a thing, but eh whatever)

Spoiler: show
I could say "maybe the Jeweled Scepter left him unscathed by the SGW, as that's what enabled Blaze's dimension to be one of the only ones in the Sonic multiverse that didn't get wiped out and that's where he was left," but the nature of his being would also be subject to a retcon, as Sega has said there can only be one Metal Sonic. even if we assume that the first Universe arc happened in both continuities, which would account for his existence if the "only one Metal Sonic" mandate wasn't in place, that would mean we'd also have to assume that Metal Sonic got stranded in Blaze's world and Eggman had to build a new one, which Sega wouldn't allow for due to the mandate. well, obviously, that's why he was never actually called Metal Sonic by name in that story.
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