Change of tone in sonic comics?

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Re: Change of tone in sonic comics?

Postby Mordum » Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:59 pm

The Swordsman wrote:I'm with Village on this. Why does Sonic Boom need lore?


It doesn't "need" anything other than what it wants to do. It's possible to just not like something. Something doesn't "need" to be different from itself. If it "needs" anything, it'd all be related to things that would seek to further accomplish what it tries to do, i.e. be a disposable, light, episodic comedy.

Brady Bunch didn't need a tiki curse, but just because it had one once doesn't mean it's constantly obligated to have it. If Sonic Boom is constantly presenting itself as a disposable sitcom ala the olden days, it's on the viewer if they hate it for being something it never really tries to be. There's nothing wrong with disliking it, but looking at a turtle and hating it because you can't ride it like a horse isn't a criticism of that turtle's capabilities.

Its also what made Sonic more unique compared to Mario. Also games can be very plot heavy and engaging like many RPGs and the Metal Gear Solid series.


"Plot" is not an element inherent to novels. To whit:

Plot is a literary term used to describe the events that make up a story or the main part of a story.


http://literarydevices.net/plot/

Plot is an ASPECT of story, or storytelling. When I say "games aren't novels", my criticism is not of the fact games aren't "plot heavy" (as plot is not story), especially considering there're novels that are not particularly heavy on plot (the example, off the top of my head, just because it's a favorite book of mine, is Crack Up at the Race Riots by Harmony Korine, which is intentionally abstract and avant garde and all that good stuff) and are still novels.

There is nothing wrong with your game having a PLOT, i.e. the sequence of events that compose the spine of a story, or even a great one.

But a PLATFORMER, a game designed largely around passing through one level to the next based on physical challenges given to your unique character, being played for its STORY, rather than PLOT being an incidental aspect of the platforming, is questionable. Again, games aren't novels. I LIKE story-driven Sonic platformers, but it goes with admitting that the games themselves are often Not That Great (and Sonic is a Gotta Go Fast game that's about being interrupted constantly, so it's not like Sonic's ever had great game design)...that's the point where story focus does become a hindrance, rather than a benefit.

If Sonic were a novel, the focus on story as a written block of cutscenes ala a screenplay wouldn't be a problem (and hey, Moby Dick had theatrical monologues actually formatted like theatrical monologues, so go nuts!), but the storytelling as the focus makes the gameplay, the entire thing that DEFINES THE MEDIUM SONIC'S IN, secondary. Sonic is a game that has a story, not really a plot that you play.

And thus probably not a great incentive for a game.

You don't read much Marvel comics do you? Marvel to my knowledge has never fully rebooted the series which means that the continuity adds up so they can't tell the exact same stories anymore.


You do get that, right now, Marvel is doing a big event that's taken the title and basic premise of their original Big Event and its expressed purpose is to reconfigure and reboot its universe, right? It's literally replicating a prior story to start over.

(And even then, you have stuff like One More Day sprinkled around little individual heroes' continuities anyway, or someone else wanting to do their own echo of Chris Claremont, or etc etc etc.)
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Re: Change of tone in sonic comics?

Postby The KKM » Tue Jun 16, 2015 12:46 am

did you forget about the mega drive in that statement that sonic's never had good design or do you subscribe to popular modern revisionist theory of "sonic was never good and it was all because of the marketing"?
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Re: Change of tone in sonic comics?

Postby Mordum » Tue Jun 16, 2015 1:57 am

The KKM wrote:did you forget about the mega drive in that statement that sonic's never had good design or do you subscribe to popular modern revisionist theory of "sonic was never good and it was all because of the marketing"?


I didn't say Sonic was never good. I just said it didn't have great game design.

I still think the early games are fun as all get out.

I think Final Fantasy 7 (topical!) had game design elements in it that genocided Final Fantasy's design sensibilities from the inside out, but it's still a good game (story, on the other hand...)
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Re: Change of tone in sonic comics?

Postby Kellox » Tue Jun 16, 2015 3:47 am

AllHailShadow wrote:
jazzflower92 wrote:Also a lot of fans said that those designs from before Flynn, kind of creepily made the female characters fetishized.


I dunno if I'd call it fetishized but I just thought it was really... unappealing. I'm very glad the characters no longer look like this

Image

imo the move to a house style where they try to match the Sega style as close as possible was the best decision the creative team's made


I don't really think it's that ''mature'' either but the style is on some ways really distracting and offputting it clashes with the Sega-characters design. I really like that they decided to stay as close to the house style as possible and its not like the styles look alike too much there is obvious difference with the new artist crew there are those who are more manga-ish inspired and those who are more western cartoony inspired which I quite like.

I remember as a child reading the Sonic and Knuckles comic books I always felt irritated that 99 percent of the time the art in the book was never as good or was close to the style as that of the cover. I was reading a lot of European and Japanese comic books back then so I was used to the same artist doing the book and cover. I also thought it was often very off putting to first see styles like this:
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/archi ... Sukiss.png
then this later: http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lz61r ... o1_400.png
and then this which imo was my least favorite Artist working on the book: http://i.imgur.com/rkUZX8z.png


and while I did enjoy Steven Butler's art the way he drew the female characters was very different the way he drew the male characters and it would clash a lot.
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Re: Change of tone in sonic comics?

Postby Mr.Unsmiley » Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:46 am



uh oh, looks like Penders owns Boom Knuckles
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Re: Change of tone in sonic comics?

Postby Village » Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:59 am

Its not even worth it, it probably more reflective on the person making the statement, than anything i could ever type.
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Re: Change of tone in sonic comics?

Postby The Swordsman » Fri Jun 19, 2015 3:54 pm

Mordum wrote:
The Swordsman wrote:You don't read much Marvel comics do you? Marvel to my knowledge has never fully rebooted the series which means that the continuity adds up so they can't tell the exact same stories anymore.


You do get that, right now, Marvel is doing a big event that's taken the title and basic premise of their original Big Event and its expressed purpose is to reconfigure and reboot its universe, right? It's literally replicating a prior story to start over.

(And even then, you have stuff like One More Day sprinkled around little individual heroes' continuities anyway, or someone else wanting to do their own echo of Chris Claremont, or etc etc etc.)

No I did not as I hadn't gotten to my nearest comic shop yet, the last marvel comic I read was Guardians Of Galaxy 23. (I also plan on getting Spider-Man Renew Your Vows whenever that comes out) So sorry about that. I'll never get why comic companies think rebooting the universe is a good idea, depending on how this plays out I might just drop Marvel altogether. :(
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Re: Change of tone in sonic comics?

Postby MarioandSonic999 » Sat Jun 20, 2015 7:23 am

Can the "Sonic the Hedgehog" comics have a darker tone? If so, Sally would even have to use a gun for change!
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Re: Change of tone in sonic comics?

Postby Toby » Sat Jun 20, 2015 8:14 am

No, it will never happen.
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Re: Change of tone in sonic comics?

Postby MarioandSonic999 » Sat Jun 20, 2015 8:42 am

Toby wrote:No, it will never happen.

Nah, that's okay. The thing that I have posted here is based on the "Terminator Genisys" poster that had Arnold Schwarzenegger in it.
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Re: Change of tone in sonic comics?

Postby The Jazzyman » Sun Jun 21, 2015 6:12 pm

Kellox wrote:
AllHailShadow wrote:
jazzflower92 wrote:Also a lot of fans said that those designs from before Flynn, kind of creepily made the female characters fetishized.


I dunno if I'd call it fetishized but I just thought it was really... unappealing. I'm very glad the characters no longer look like this

Image

imo the move to a house style where they try to match the Sega style as close as possible was the best decision the creative team's made


I don't really think it's that ''mature'' either but the style is on some ways really distracting and offputting it clashes with the Sega-characters design. I really like that they decided to stay as close to the house style as possible and its not like the styles look alike too much there is obvious difference with the new artist crew there are those who are more manga-ish inspired and those who are more western cartoony inspired which I quite like.

I remember as a child reading the Sonic and Knuckles comic books I always felt irritated that 99 percent of the time the art in the book was never as good or was close to the style as that of the cover. I was reading a lot of European and Japanese comic books back then so I was used to the same artist doing the book and cover. I also thought it was often very off putting to first see styles like this:
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/archi ... Sukiss.png
then this later: http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lz61r ... o1_400.png
and then this which imo was my least favorite Artist working on the book: http://i.imgur.com/rkUZX8z.png


and while I did enjoy Steven Butler's art the way he drew the female characters was very different the way he drew the male characters and it would clash a lot.



With the art style problem some of the characters had, I think that there is a fine difference between characters like Sally looking like they do on that cover and this:

Image

The new designs have grown on me, but I'm just trying to make the point that although we had a 'dark' period in the comics, those times had passed by the time that Ian Flynn came on board.
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Re: Change of tone in sonic comics?

Postby Duck Army » Sun Oct 25, 2015 12:08 pm

BUMP!
Personally, i don't notice a shift. Since Flynn took over, the comics have mostly been "Light and fun, but with enough dark stuff to distinguish it from the games". Before the reboot, we had Treasure Team followed by the dark Enerjak arc, or Knothole's destruction followed by the tables turning and a lighter tone. Or Genesis followed by the dark issues 230-235. Or "Lien-Da getting her face blown apart", which obviously didn't keep that tone for long.
The reboot has been the same. 277 mixed in Lupe's tragic backstory with the light main story. Sonic's rampage in 265 was followed by the lighter 266. The early issues with all the emotional trauma of the memories coming back being lightened up.
The Flynn era in general has, however, been lighter than Penders, which, apart from some lighter stories, was mostly dark, gritty melodrama.
Also, SatAM wasn't dark. Yes, some episodes were dark, and the setting was dark, but nothing dark actually happened. Most episodes were just Robotnik's scheme of the week. Compare that to...
Adventure 2: Mass government killings, Shadow dying, Sonic almost dying, Eggman being portrayed seriously for once, blowing up the moon, and pointing a gun against Amy's head.
Shadow: Dark storyline, swearing, guns, Shadow contemplating his purpose in life, and almost killing the president.
06: Villain who tries to destroy all of time and space, Sonic dying.
Even Lost World: Harsh dialogue, Sonic's cockiness and "Do before thinking" attitude biting him in the butt by causing Tails to get kidnapped and turned into a robot, Amy, Knuckles, and the whole world, for that matter, getting the life sucked out of it, Eggman drowning in lava.
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Re: Change of tone in sonic comics?

Postby The KKM » Sun Oct 25, 2015 7:08 pm

Did you actually read the comics, in order to notice the hypothetical shift in the first place?
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Re: Change of tone in sonic comics?

Postby Astrobot7000 » Mon Oct 26, 2015 1:43 pm

Mordum wrote:This is like watching Brady Bunch and complaining every single episode isn't the multi-parter with the tiki curse.


While I seldom see eye to eye with you, I must say that this is one of the best things I have ever seen on this forum. You sir, win the internet!
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Re: Change of tone in sonic comics?

Postby Mordum » Mon Oct 26, 2015 1:46 pm

Astrobot7000 wrote:
Mordum wrote:This is like watching Brady Bunch and complaining every single episode isn't the multi-parter with the tiki curse.


While I seldom see eye to eye with you, I must say that this is one of the best things I have ever seen on this forum. You sir, win the internet!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYGuQlQseHU
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