Change of tone in sonic comics?

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Re: Change of tone in sonic comics?

Postby Mordum » Wed Jun 10, 2015 9:27 pm

The Jazzyman wrote: Up until recently (excluding the classic games) the games have had dark themes. Think of Sonic Adventure 2. The character had his cocky personality, but the story took itself seriously.


But it's serious like a b-movie is serious.
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Re: Change of tone in sonic comics?

Postby Village » Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:41 pm

Mordum wrote:
The Jazzyman wrote: Up until recently (excluding the classic games) the games have had dark themes. Think of Sonic Adventure 2. The character had his cocky personality, but the story took itself seriously.


But it's serious like a b-movie is serious.


Besically, or what i call shonen animus serious.

You aren't supposed to take it all the way seriously, there were stakes. There were stakes, cool guys, and an actual dark thing every once in a while but its all very silly in the end.

SonicBlueRanger wrote:Really? Are you seriously saying "Lighter Tone doesn't fit Sonic The Hedgehog". Why do people keep saying this? What about Sonic isn't Lighthearted?

I don't think its about being light hearted. Though there is, even WAY back in the day some pretty dark stuff in sonic, about stakes and and lately there hasn't been any.

I think boom exemplifies this problem. Now I have no idea where boom is going , but when boom was first brought it people talked about this being a new branch of sonic and expanding. Doing new things, creating a world, brand franchise ect. However, its focused around the cartoon, its seems to have disregarded any sense of urgency the games might have created to be focused on a cartoon where nothing happens. And nothing is taken seriously, there are no stakes, nothing happens, its more funny than anything. Which is, what a lot of people don't want out of sonic, they liked the b movie animu type stuff, that was more funny to them, than sonic actually trying to be funny, because the latter results in nothing cool happening.

I don't think the comics have this problem, they seem to introduce interesting stuff and the characters seem to be fighting things and taking things as seriously as they can.

But for the rest of sonic, yeah i can see someone not fond of that. I'm not actually that fond of it actually myself.
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Re: Change of tone in sonic comics?

Postby akessel92 » Wed Jun 10, 2015 11:53 pm

Yes, there have been some serious moments post-reboot, but they have never seemed to have any lasting effect. The effects seemed to only last 1 to 2 issues.

Uh one to two issues? Sonic is still a freaking werehog at night. He hates going out at night because people will only see the monster rather than the hero he has been known for. And also the freedom fighters sat out during champions regardless of not being chosen to play in the breezie games they wanted to make up for what happened last time. As of now they still need one emerald to save the world and put it back together and that's what's driving them is to get that last emerald, find the keys to the Gaia gates, then save the world. They're gonna step up their game in getting them.
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Re: Change of tone in sonic comics?

Postby LBD_Nytetrayn » Thu Jun 11, 2015 1:58 am

I, for one, will always appreciate the serious nature of SatAM and the deep respect it gave its subject matter. ;)

--LBD "Nytetrayn"
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Re: Change of tone in sonic comics?

Postby MetalSkulkBane » Thu Jun 11, 2015 2:21 am

The Jazzyman wrote:I do understand that the series has undergone tonal changes in different story arcs, but the tone has sort of stayed with the issue following the Sonic the Fighters adaptation. I liked before how they changed tone back and forth, but there seems to be a little too much of a comedic change recently with the main series. And to your other question, no I don't think that a full on Lighter Tone suits Sonic. Up until recently (excluding the classic games) the games have had dark themes. Think of Sonic Adventure 2. The character had his cocky personality, but the story took itself seriously.

Wait, you're saying that Sonic became too light since "Championship"? That was last story before crossover, 272 barely counts. Either I'm misunderstanding you again or you're drawing conclusions too fast.

Village wrote:I think boom exemplifies this problem. Now I have no idea where boom is going , but when boom was first brought it people talked about this being a new branch of sonic and expanding. Doing new things, creating a world, brand franchise ect. However, its focused around the cartoon, its seems to have disregarded any sense of urgency the games might have created to be focused on a cartoon where nothing happens. And nothing is taken seriously, there are no stakes, nothing happens, its more funny than anything. Which is, what a lot of people don't want out of sonic, they liked the b movie animu type stuff, that was more funny to them, than sonic actually trying to be funny, because the latter results in nothing cool happening.

I don't think the comics have this problem, they seem to introduce interesting stuff and the characters seem to be fighting things and taking things as seriously as they can.

But for the rest of sonic, yeah i can see someone not fond of that. I'm not actually that fond of it actually myself.


Same here.
From my point of view Sega messed up with Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic 2006 and decided to stop entirely with any seriousness (there was something left in Black Knight and Unleashed, starting with Colors we have Pontac/Graff duo that makes most simple stories possible. And I really hate it.

But you know what? It's not even about "dark and edgy" or even "mature stuff". I just want stories to be a little more complicated. I mean Colors was just jokes, that's fine, but Generations could really do more with itself. It's even more visible with Lost World, were they introduce new bad guys, but don't tell us anything about them. What are Zeeti, are there more of them, who made that shellcon, what is that Lost Hex? (Remember when Preboot said that Mobius had thousands Moon? With Little Planet, Wisp Planets and this one I'm starting to believe it's still cannon).
And when we have Sonic Boom, a prequel to cartoon, that doesn't explain one thing about this new world, with story as basic as it gets. I mean, they added hub world with talking characters, that's perfect excuse to talk about Ancients or new world.
"Best of all" is that Rise of Lyric sold worse than 06. but Sega still won't risk making more serious game. :roll:

And back in a days we had spin-off games to feel batter, like Rush series, Rivals or Battle. But not it's just android games, Sega All Star, Mario & Sonic Olympics or hand-held version of main title.
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Re: Change of tone in sonic comics?

Postby Penguin God » Thu Jun 11, 2015 2:39 am

That's not necessarily a matter of tone as it is quality. Lost World's writing is all over the place and not incredibly satisfying, but it's not because it's lighthearted: it's just a mess. Unleashed is one of the best written games in the series (not a very high bar) but the majority of the game is just pleasantly talking to people and tasting foods. Tone is just a small factor of quality unless it goes terribly wrong (such as trying to pitch Sonic as a slow-paced serious emotional romance drama.)

The comic is somewhat lighter than the preboot (a good thing as far as I'm concerned) but mostly just in the situation. They're no longer at war, they're not a bunch of survivors and soldiers. They're a bunch of kids on adventures, against kooky enemies and big spectacle robots. There's still emotional beats (such as the Werehog or Spark of Life), there's still danger (such as the Freedom Fighter trap or Eclipse), there's still everything that made the comic good beforehand. It's just that now it has more freedom to do something like Champions, where nobody's out to kill anybody and the characters can just relax, make some jokes and work through an interesting non-war scenario. Stories such as "let's chase a train" or "protect Meropis from monsters to help a mystic girl" aren't exactly as big and epic as Enerjak returning or Eggman burning Knothole to the ground, but I certainly welcome them.
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Re: Change of tone in sonic comics?

Postby Mordum » Thu Jun 11, 2015 5:14 am

MetalSkulkBane wrote:Preboot said


It's catching on!

And when we have Sonic Boom, a prequel to cartoon, that doesn't explain one thing about this new world, with story as basic as it gets. I mean, they added hub world with talking characters, that's perfect excuse to talk about Ancients or new world.


I have to ask though. Why does this matter?

Why does the setting really have to be explained? It's not like the main games have existed in any sort of consistent setting: they have vague backstory baggage from different game plots, but they're hardly a really developed setting.
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Re: Change of tone in sonic comics?

Postby MetalSkulkBane » Thu Jun 11, 2015 7:08 am

Mordum wrote:
MetalSkulkBane wrote:And when we have Sonic Boom, a prequel to cartoon, that doesn't explain one thing about this new world, with story as basic as it gets. I mean, they added hub world with talking characters, that's perfect excuse to talk about Ancients or new world.


I have to ask though. Why does this matter?

Why does the setting really have to be explained? It's not like the main games have existed in any sort of consistent setting: they have vague backstory baggage from different game plots, but they're hardly a really developed setting.


Technically it doesn't, but then why make new world in a first place? This game could easily be part of the main cannon (with very few tweaks). The only major difference are designs, but even that could slip (Crash Bancidoot changed his look with no explanation).
I would also point about being "a prequel to cartoon", but let's not beat a dead horse, we know that cooperation between those two was terrible.
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Re: Change of tone in sonic comics?

Postby The Jazzyman » Thu Jun 11, 2015 7:29 am

Okay, more replies! (This topic is out of control!)

Village wrote:
Mordom wrote:
The Jazzyman wrote: Up until recently (excluding the classic games) the games have had dark themes. Think of Sonic Adventure 2. The character had his cocky personality, but the story took itself seriously.


But it's serious like a b-movie is serious.


Besically, or what i call shonen animus serious.

You aren't supposed to take it all the way seriously, there were stakes. There were stakes, cool guys, and an actual dark thing every once in a while but its all very silly in the end.


I agree that the overall feel shouldn't be too serious, but I feel that there hasn't really been enough.

akessel92 wrote:
Yes, there have been some serious moments post-reboot, but they have never seemed to have any lasting effect. The effects seemed to only last 1 to 2 issues.

Uh one to two issues? Sonic is still a freaking werehog at night. He hates going out at night because people will only see the monster rather than the hero he has been known for. And also the freedom fighters sat out during champions regardless of not being chosen to play in the breezie games they wanted to make up for what happened last time. As of now they still need one emerald to save the world and put it back together and that's what's driving them is to get that last emerald, find the keys to the Gaia gates, then save the world. They're gonna step up their game in getting them.


This topic is about tonal changes. I do not think that the warehog transformations and needing to "step up their game" to fix Mobius really qualifies as a tonal difference (if anything it is sort of cliché trying to save the world again). In the Spark of Life storyline the characters were involved with conflict between each other (won't tell just in case of spoilers). In the old universe Sonic had to tackle Robotnik while facing the prospect that the FF had disbanded.

LBD_Nytetrayn wrote:I, for one, will always appreciate the serious nature of SatAM and the deep respect it gave its subject matter. ;)

--LBD "Nytetrayn"


Don't worry old buddy, although I may not prefer it myself, I still appreciate a good SatAM fan! (Oh wait, just watched that YouTube vid. U troll ;) )

MetalSkulkBane wrote:
The Jazzyman wrote:I do understand that the series has undergone tonal changes in different story arcs, but the tone has sort of stayed with the issue following the Sonic the Fighters adaptation. I liked before how they changed tone back and forth, but there seems to be a little too much of a comedic change recently with the main series. And to your other question, no I don't think that a full on Lighter Tone suits Sonic. Up until recently (excluding the classic games) the games have had dark themes. Think of Sonic Adventure 2. The character had his cocky personality, but the story took itself seriously.

Wait, you're saying that Sonic became too light since "Championship"? That was last story before crossover, 272 barely counts. Either I'm misunderstanding you again or you're drawing conclusions too fast.


Oh, you did understand me correctly. It likely is too early to tell, oops (5 months feels like a long time!). I still do feel though that the only lore building is being done in sonic universe, but that is a topic for another day.
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Re: Change of tone in sonic comics?

Postby Sunwalker » Thu Jun 11, 2015 7:35 am

LBD_Nytetrayn wrote:I, for one, will always appreciate the serious nature of SatAM and the deep respect it gave its subject matter. ;)

--LBD "Nytetrayn"

At first I thought that this clip was from AoSTH, then I saw Sally :P.
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Re: Change of tone in sonic comics?

Postby The Jazzyman » Thu Jun 11, 2015 7:37 am

Penguin God wrote:That's not necessarily a matter of tone as it is quality. Lost World's writing is all over the place and not incredibly satisfying, but it's not because it's lighthearted: it's just a mess. Unleashed is one of the best written games in the series (not a very high bar) but the majority of the game is just pleasantly talking to people and tasting foods. Tone is just a small factor of quality unless it goes terribly wrong (such as trying to pitch Sonic as a slow-paced serious emotional romance drama.)

The comic is somewhat lighter than the preboot (a good thing as far as I'm concerned) but mostly just in the situation. They're no longer at war, they're not a bunch of survivors and soldiers. They're a bunch of kids on adventures, against kooky enemies and big spectacle robots. There's still emotional beats (such as the Werehog or Spark of Life), there's still danger (such as the Freedom Fighter trap or Eclipse), there's still everything that made the comic good beforehand. It's just that now it has more freedom to do something like Champions, where nobody's out to kill anybody and the characters can just relax, make some jokes and work through an interesting non-war scenario. Stories such as "let's chase a train" or "protect Meropis from monsters to help a mystic girl" aren't exactly as big and epic as Enerjak returning or Eggman burning Knothole to the ground, but I certainly welcome them.


Sorry for posting so much, but I felt this must be said. This is the main problem I personally have with the new universe. The stories were so much more interesting when Robotnik was burning Knithole to the ground and when Enerjak returned and when Sonic was busting heads from across the multiverse. "Chasing Trains" and saving pedestrians isn't really that interesting at all to me.
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Re: Change of tone in sonic comics?

Postby MetalSkulkBane » Thu Jun 11, 2015 8:21 am

The Jazzyman wrote:
Penguin God wrote:That's not necessarily a matter of tone as it is quality. Lost World's writing is all over the place and not incredibly satisfying, but it's not because it's lighthearted: it's just a mess. Unleashed is one of the best written games in the series (not a very high bar) but the majority of the game is just pleasantly talking to people and tasting foods. Tone is just a small factor of quality unless it goes terribly wrong (such as trying to pitch Sonic as a slow-paced serious emotional romance drama.)

The comic is somewhat lighter than the preboot (a good thing as far as I'm concerned) but mostly just in the situation. They're no longer at war, they're not a bunch of survivors and soldiers. They're a bunch of kids on adventures, against kooky enemies and big spectacle robots. There's still emotional beats (such as the Werehog or Spark of Life), there's still danger (such as the Freedom Fighter trap or Eclipse), there's still everything that made the comic good beforehand. It's just that now it has more freedom to do something like Champions, where nobody's out to kill anybody and the characters can just relax, make some jokes and work through an interesting non-war scenario. Stories such as "let's chase a train" or "protect Meropis from monsters to help a mystic girl" aren't exactly as big and epic as Enerjak returning or Eggman burning Knothole to the ground, but I certainly welcome them.


Sorry for posting so much, but I felt this must be said. This is the main problem I personally have with the new universe. The stories were so much more interesting when Robotnik was burning Knothole to the ground and when Enerjak returned and when Sonic was busting heads from across the multiverse. "Chasing Trains" and saving pedestrians isn't really that interesting at all to me.


In that case we're not dealing with change of tone, but change of size. In old universe 6 issue was the longest you could have 'breather' issue (right after Iron Dominium). In new universe pretty much everything after 253 to 272 are breathers (more or less), with biggest threat so far being Metal Sonic (who could be really dangerous, but Flynn prefers to keep him on medium level, to keep him easy to return)
But remember that: with Reboot Flynn lost tons of characters and storylines he planned ahead. He need some time to fill the universe and seed some plots, then we're going to have some bigger storyline again.
As for SU it moves differently because every arc is self contain, there is no place for 'fillers'. That's why every bigger new villain debuts there, not in main series. Flynn just can't afford Shadow arc about him beating some E-100 robots for 4 issues.
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Re: Change of tone in sonic comics?

Postby Kellox » Thu Jun 11, 2015 8:47 am

I quite enjoy Satam myself and I do not think it's dark as people say it is. I think the overwhelming of overly lighttoned animated series in the end of the 90's and in between 2003-2009 makes Satam stand out a bit in people's memories.

I dont think the tone changed that much but like people mentioned it feels like is less in stake. I like the cartoony style and I think its fitting for Sonic. As long as the tone doesnt go to Boom-Levels I am fine with it.
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Re: Change of tone in sonic comics?

Postby Mordum » Thu Jun 11, 2015 9:16 am

MetalSkulkBane wrote:Technically it doesn't, but then why make new world in a first place?


Different takes on the characters and different stylistic focuses, which all Boom fiction, interactive or otherwise, does.

Setting is pretty immaterial. It's not like the games prior to Boom had any real tangible setting either, beyond accumulated backstory. It's easy to say Bygone Island isn't much of a place, but you're comparing it to games that had the cumulative effect of having random @#$% thrown onto them each game, with the vague tie-in of each thing eventually tying to some sort of elder god. As much as I, personally, adore that, is it REALLY interesting worldbuilding to have countless apocalyptic gods and generic prophecies cropping up everywhere?

I'd make the sincere argument that Boom's setting, between the games, cartoon, and comics, is actually way more well defined than the main games' ever have been. Lyric and D-Fekt are two distinct, visually interesting villains that aren't just the reuse of a stock archetype and the TV show and comics, set in the same general continuity and mythology, have a nice little society of supporting characters who AREN'T there to permeate the exact same type of thing we've already seen.

The main games have more "lore" and mythology, TECHNICALLY, in the sense that it repeats the same two archetypes over and over again and there's a cumulative backstory of vague apocalypse religions and messiah characters, but Boom has a more consistent and constructed setting overall, despite the seeming dissonance between subsections of the brand.
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Re: Change of tone in sonic comics?

Postby MetalSkulkBane » Thu Jun 11, 2015 10:54 am

Mordum wrote:Different takes on the characters and different stylistic focuses, which all Boom fiction, interactive or otherwise, does.

Different take on characters? Knuckles is slightly stupider and Amy more stoic, but that isn't much different from what we seen in Lost World. I wouldn't mind it if next mainstream game will take itself more seriously to contrast itself from Boom, but do you think that will happen?
(Also, the most different character was Shadow. It's kinda funny, but when you think about it Shadow Prime was never really a loner, always working with Team Dark, Eggman or some side kick in his own game. Even in Chronicles he's looking for his pal Omega :P )

And stylistic focus differs from game to the game, in Colors he's in Space, Unleashed around the World, RoL kinda tropical-ish. That actually sounds like bad thing, because sequels might repeat same themes (than again, Sonic Prime does that too).

And of course that Boom is more defined. Not only it had only 3 games (one didn't came out yet, second is copy of third) but also it's moderm. Back in 1991 no one thought about lore. That's why Aosth/Satam/Archie/Manga/Fleetway came out in the same time, but are completely different.

But yeah, I also like how broad Sonic is. Tons of lore, characters, universes, reinterpretations, I think that's one of really cool things about Sonic (which of course has its bad sides, like shipping wars or troubles of defining what Sonic is about).
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