Top Strategist/Tactician (Villians): RECOUNT!

Forum devoted to Sonic the Hedgehog, Sonic Universe and the entire Sonic line by Archie Comics.

Do you agree with my theory?

Hmm, I think you might be on to something.
2
20%
NO! All hail Warlord Doctor Julian Ivo Eggman Robo-Kintobor Mach Two! (Eggman)
2
20%
Do not pretend to be of my mental caliber! (Mogul)
2
20%
Child! Blind to reality, with no vision for the future! (Finitevus)
0
No votes
I still think that best evil stategist is (someone else)
4
40%
 
Total votes : 10

Top Strategist/Tactician (Villians): RECOUNT!

Postby MetalSkulkBane » Sat May 02, 2015 4:13 pm

So first thing I did after joining this forum was checking old topics to make sure I won't repeat already asked questions. And there I found this
Top Strategist/Tactician (Villians)
This... is...
Spoiler: show
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Ok, unfunny memes aside, I don't think that a right person won this poll. I don't want to bash anyone's opinions, I just want to point you few factors that weren't taken into account. Whenever you'll agree with me, it's up to you.

So let's look at our players.
Doctor Eggman - possibly the smartest person on Mobius. However Einstein was smart too and I would never make him general of my army. No that that old Ivo doesn't have his strong moments. His best specialty are hostile takeover. Mobotropolis, Knothole (#50), Mobotropolis again (#75) and Knothole again (#175). Each attack was sudden, well planned and deadly. Too bad that Robotnik doesn't work like this every day. If you look closely at his biggest plans they are limited to two tools: Power of Science and Big Stick.
Mecha Madness: He send Mecha Sonic without even thinking to send him back-up or ask for Knothole's location.
Sonic Adventure: When Chaos turns against him, his only plan is to send Egg Carrier
Home: With Sonic back from space he send a huge army of robots and some nukes at Knothole
And during 160-200 he mostly relied on his Egg Fleet or Egg Phoenix. No strategy, just a lot of fire power. Granted, sometimes he made clever inventions (his teleporting lasers he used on Mogul and Knuckles-Enerjack) but those are inventions, not strategy. He didn't cared for his defenses in 192, despite ability to build Metal Sonic in hours.
And let's not even talk about World Collide. He had infinite number of Robot Masters, but send Robotized Master in small groups, just to slow Sonic down. It's like running from a psycho with knife and throwing your gun at him!
Last nail to his coffin: he let Sonic live FOUR times (Darkest Storm 164, Eggman Emipire 175, FCBD 2007 & 2010 there is probably more). It's not "Sonic is chaos" that saved him all those times, it's someones EGG-O!
And I know what his fans will say: He's holding back. He could easily win, but he wants a challenge. But WHEN is he playing seriously? Even after being taken down TWICE and going crazy, he still acts reckless. Mecha Sally arc was probably Robotnik at his best planning. He had Genesis Wave, Roboticizer, Death Egg, Titan Sonic AND Tails Doll. Honestly he should win if not for Nagus and Chaos Emerald going MIA. But then he wastes all the advantage he gained. In 236 he attacks Furville for no reason except to scare Mobius again. His Death Egg is barely flying, he lost many troopes during Scrambled (SU 37-40), but he's so confident in his victory that he plays with scaring folks. That's not a good strategist, that megalomaniac who puts his petty cravings over actual needs of his Eggman Empire.

Mammoth Mogul - the guy who won previous poll. Unlike Robotnik, he's real chess master. Playing behind the scene, manipulating his enemies into his hands. He even outsmarted Dimitri in KtE 9 (granted, Dimitri's mind was blinded by power, but still). His every plan is almost perfect, he looses only because whole universe usually attack him at once.
So let me start with saying this: Mogul's genius is a little over rated. It's easy to make a master plans when you're DEMIGOD with unlimited power.
"Mark your enemies to make them your slaves in the future" - why Scourge didn't though of that?
"Out live Sonic" - Eggman need to copy that strategy! Imagine Robotnik jogging every day and eating fresh salad to stay healthy!
"When you're weaken by being trapped in ME for month, capture Turbo Tails when Athair is looking and feed of his energy, while simultaneously keep him at his super form" - I'm not going to even comment on that but pull!
But hey, I can't demand him to give up those powers, result are all that matter, right? Then answer me this: During cadency of one Guardian (Knuckles) he attacked three times. Knuckles had over fifteen predecessor and Mogul is older then idea of Guardian. HOW DIDN'T HE CONQUERED US YET? There was no Sonic to stop him, nor Chosen One or even Knuckles/Living Chaos Emerald. Are you seriously telling me that after his Order of Ixis failed he didn't do anything for that long?
And just look at his defeats: three times he became god and three times it ended with not just defeat, but catastrophe for him. ME, Merlin's emerald, Egg Grapes. With all that smart of his he would be finished, if it wasn't for 3rd party saving his bacon. His Destructix and Marked People wouldn't save him.
But I know what you're gonna tell: according to Encyclopedia his emerald was cursed. After "Mogul Rising" he got a new one and learned how to approach Sonic. Now he's much smarter and he will definitely succeed in the future, O WAIT. Flynn said that Silver's future is cannon, that means that he messed up. Big time. Sure, you can blame Eggman or Nagus, but Mogul was looking from outside perspective and he didn't saw disaster coming. And that's why, while he is one of the smartest, IMO he doesn't deserve place on the top.

Doctor Finitevus - the creepiest of the three. Similarly to Mogul he is master manipulator, playing Legion, Dimitri, Knuckles and even Locke. However he has two important advantages over Mogul.
1 He created a God without being close to Mogul's power and he did it in much shorter time.
2 Since he's kinda anti-Knuckles there is high possibility that he could turn HIMSELF into Enerjack. However he preferred to stay in the shadows, which ultimately allowed him to escape to scheme another day.
His only weakness is his insanity. He believes that word is corrupted, so no one would sacrifice his own life for other person. That lead him to telling Locke how to break his hex and his downfall.
However Finitevus has one more ace in his sleeve. While I can't be sure of it (we must wait for Lost Hedgehog Tales), Silver's future seems to fit into Finitevus's plans. Is it possible that in the end, crazy doctor is the one to finally win it all?

So who's the top Strategist? Baldy Mcnosehair? Jumbo? Doctor Creepy Von Evil? NEITHER!

There is one evil genius, smarter then all of them. Evil genius who wasn't even CONSIDERED in previous poll.
I'm talking about the only person that Eggman ever asked for advice (except Mecha Sally).
I'm talking about the person who used everyone as a pawns in his game. (including Mogul!)
I'm talking about the GOD SLAYER.
I'm talking about A.D.A.M. The Anonymous, a virus-son of Ivo Robotnik.
So, what does ADAM has that other villains lack? He took all his enemies into account.
Finitevus plan was great, however it ignored Sonic's existence. He could send Knuckles on him, but instead he focused only on echidnas.
Mogul? During 149-150 he became so powerful that he could destroy zones and he left both Sonic and Tails alive. That cost him dearly.
Eggman? Come on, the list would be too long.
Adam calculated who could be threat to him, then one by one removed them from equation. Mogul, Naugus, Ancient Walkers, Source of All, M, Shadow and Tails/Chosen One. With Eggman unable to stop him, Sonic was the last obstacle in his path, and he was ready for him.
Overall, Adam made only one crucial mistake: he possessed Tommy. Even ignoring the fact that Tommy broke free, Adam never had a body before. That 'blunted' his senses and he didn't realize that Eggman was freeing Tails and Shadow. If he choose nanite city instead, he could make a forcefield around emerald, similarly like NICOLE does. He would have whole city to control and infinite power. My only guess why he didn't took that route is that he needed a fleshy host to turn super (remeber, Super Mecha Sonic doesn't exist in this universe, nor any other 'super' robot.)

Phew, that was a lot of text. So, what do you think about my theory?
Last edited by MetalSkulkBane on Fri May 15, 2015 3:33 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Top Strategist/Tactician (Villians): RECOUNT!

Postby Betz! » Sat May 02, 2015 4:25 pm

Robotnik is no longer a "mark 2" version.
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Re: Top Strategist/Tactician (Villians): RECOUNT!

Postby Penguin God » Sat May 02, 2015 4:26 pm

I don't think ADAM cared so much about going super as he wanted a strong shield against Sonic and (theoretically) wanted a body so he could really be seen as a son like M was a daughter. Order From Chaos was one of my favorite storyarcs, but it's only barely hidden that the events were mostly unrelated and connected after the fact. ADAM's plan looked somewhat amazing in hindsight, but up until OoC it was all fairly clumsy. His plans were very good, though, and despite me saying otherwise in 2011, Mogul's planning skills were actually sort of terrible. It's a bit strange to say who's the best, as loads of villains in this comic are chessmaster types and they all have their own weaknesses and strengths.
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Re: Top Strategist/Tactician (Villians): RECOUNT!

Postby MetalSkulkBane » Sat May 02, 2015 4:30 pm

Betz! wrote:Robotnik is no longer a "mark 2" version.


Well, he's not longer "Robo-Kintobor" too. I was just quoting Eggman from issue 205. Same with Mogul and Finitevus.

And does it matter? This covers Robotnik's actions before reboot.
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Re: Top Strategist/Tactician (Villians): RECOUNT!

Postby Spectre the Hechidnat » Sat May 02, 2015 7:44 pm

I agree that ADAM was one of the greatest strategists in the old reality. Mogul was pretty good too, but since ADAM played him and a lot of Mobius' major powers I think he gets the number 2 slot. In the new reality, however, my vote goes to Breezie.

For a second I wondered why Naugus wasn't on here-and then I remembered who I was thinking about.
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Re: Top Strategist/Tactician (Villians): RECOUNT!

Postby MetalSkulkBane » Sun May 03, 2015 3:18 am

Spectre the Hechidnat wrote:I agree that ADAM was one of the greatest strategists in the old reality. Mogul was pretty good too, but since ADAM played him and a lot of Mobius' major powers I think he gets the number 2 slot. In the new reality, however, my vote goes to Breezie.


Breezie? I don't know, the only way to see her as the smartest is "I know that taking over the world is stupid. I'll just have my semi-legal casino". but when it comes to actual manipulation she didn't showed that much yet. She didn't really outsmarted Eggman or Sonic, she would be content with either of them taking the emerald.
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Re: Top Strategist/Tactician (Villians): RECOUNT!

Postby QuantamEdge » Sun May 03, 2015 10:15 am

I'm definitely with you on ADAM. Although he lost, he still played absolutely everyone for chumps and got a hold of every Chaos Emerald in the universe. Plus, he practically made Order From Chaos one of my favourite stories. It's just a real shame he died when his character was getting so good.
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Re: Top Strategist/Tactician (Villians): RECOUNT!

Postby The Jazzyman » Sun May 03, 2015 6:14 pm

QuantamEdge wrote:I'm definitely with you on ADAM. Although he lost, he still played absolutely everyone for chumps and got a hold of every Chaos Emerald in the universe. Plus, he practically made Order From Chaos one of my favourite stories. It's just a real shame he died when his character was getting so good.


Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure Ian Flynn was forced to kill off ADAM. This is the same reason why Mecha was killed off.
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Re: Top Strategist/Tactician (Villians): RECOUNT!

Postby NxtWaltDisney » Tue May 05, 2015 4:18 pm

Come on, everybody, We all know who the real top dog is when it comes to Villain strategists/tacticians:


Spoiler: show
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Just Look At The Darkness In Those Eyes. THIS Is The True Face of Evil.
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Re: Top Strategist/Tactician (Villians): RECOUNT!

Postby MetalSkulkBane » Wed May 06, 2015 1:22 am

If he's so smart then why I constantly use him as a punching bag? I can even threw him off the cliff if I want.
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