"Too Many Mechas" or "Where's Pseudo Sonic?"

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Re: So Where's Pseudo Sonic?

Postby ToaArcan » Sun Dec 20, 2015 8:30 am

Something to note when discussing robot Sonics: In the context of SEGA games, it looks like there are three Silver Sonics. One in Sonic 2 8bit, one in Sonic 2 16bit, and one in SA1. This is actually not the case.

The one in Sonic 2 8bit is the only robot Sonic that is officially named "Silver Sonic". The subsequent two robots are canonically called "Mecha Sonic", a moniker that they share with Mecha Sonic from S3&K. Indeed, the Mecha Sonic of Sonic 2 and the Mecha Sonic of S3&K have a lot of similar abilities, indicating that, rather than being a prototype Metal Sonic, the original Mecha Sonic was its own thing and the Sonic 3&K version was an upgraded model. In fact, take good look at the robot that would become "Silver Sonic II".

Image

It has wheels on the back of its feet, a yellow-orange visor-optic, a plate in its chest that looks like it could open, its quills resemble Sonic's, and its colours are a muted blue. It's either the Sonic 3&K Mecha Sonic redesigned for the modern games, or an upgraded "MkIII" Mecha Sonic.
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Re: So Where's Pseudo Sonic?

Postby LBD_Nytetrayn » Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:41 pm

ToaArcan wrote:Something to note when discussing robot Sonics: In the context of SEGA games, it looks like there are three Silver Sonics. One in Sonic 2 8bit, one in Sonic 2 16bit, and one in SA1. This is actually not the case.

The one in Sonic 2 8bit is the only robot Sonic that is officially named "Silver Sonic". The subsequent two robots are canonically called "Mecha Sonic", a moniker that they share with Mecha Sonic from S3&K. Indeed, the Mecha Sonic of Sonic 2 and the Mecha Sonic of S3&K have a lot of similar abilities, indicating that, rather than being a prototype Metal Sonic, the original Mecha Sonic was its own thing and the Sonic 3&K version was an upgraded model. In fact, take good look at the robot that would become "Silver Sonic II".

Image

It has wheels on the back of its feet, a yellow-orange visor-optic, a plate in its chest that looks like it could open, its quills resemble Sonic's, and its colours are a muted blue. It's either the Sonic 3&K Mecha Sonic redesigned for the modern games, or an upgraded "MkIII" Mecha Sonic.


Oh hey, this reminds me of this topic. Should we merge for easier reference?

In any case, I remember when I first saw Mecha Sonic in S3&K, I thought he was an updated version of the Sonic 2 bot, since you know, Death Egg and all that, plus the similar move set. Then somewhere along the way, I guess I got convinced somehow they were different. Funny that I was right to begin with, then?

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Re: So Where's Pseudo Sonic?

Postby The KKM » Sun Dec 20, 2015 10:52 pm

ToaArcan wrote:Something to note when discussing robot Sonics: In the context of SEGA games, it looks like there are three Silver Sonics. One in Sonic 2 8bit, one in Sonic 2 16bit, and one in SA1. This is actually not the case.

The one in Sonic 2 8bit is the only robot Sonic that is officially named "Silver Sonic". The subsequent two robots are canonically called "Mecha Sonic", a moniker that they share with Mecha Sonic from S3&K. Indeed, the Mecha Sonic of Sonic 2 and the Mecha Sonic of S3&K have a lot of similar abilities, indicating that, rather than being a prototype Metal Sonic, the original Mecha Sonic was its own thing and the Sonic 3&K version was an upgraded model. In fact, take good look at the robot that would become "Silver Sonic II".

Image

It has wheels on the back of its feet, a yellow-orange visor-optic, a plate in its chest that looks like it could open, its quills resemble Sonic's, and its colours are a muted blue. It's either the Sonic 3&K Mecha Sonic redesigned for the modern games, or an upgraded "MkIII" Mecha Sonic.


If you want to go there, even the Sonic 2 8bit one is only named Silver Sonic in Western materials, Japan-wise (and thus game-wise) all the Sonic robots that weren't Metal Sonic were varying models of Mecha Sonic. Now, whether it was one robot constantly rebuilt, or a line of robots, no idea.
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Re: So Where's Pseudo Sonic?

Postby Xabin » Tue Dec 22, 2015 10:24 pm

I'm kinda surprised we got the Sonic 2 Silver Sonic in the reboot as a separate Badnik leader. You'd think with Metal Sonic around, Eggman wouldn't want to use any other Sonic-based mecha.

Then again, I was shocked when we got the War Walrus; makes me wonder what other Freedom Fighter-based Badniks we'll get, in the future.
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Re: So Where's Pseudo Sonic?

Postby Toby » Tue Dec 22, 2015 10:29 pm

I like to pretend we didn't get the War Walrus.
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Re: So Where's Pseudo Sonic?

Postby Xabin » Tue Dec 22, 2015 10:36 pm

Toby wrote:I like to pretend we didn't get the War Walrus.


I liked the War Walrus. Yes, it wound up proving ineffectual and pathetic, but the design was rather nice and, had it not been defeated so easily, looked like it could've done some real damage to the Freedom Fighters.
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Re: So Where's Pseudo Sonic?

Postby Toby » Tue Dec 22, 2015 11:07 pm

I felt it was a horrible, out of place design. Something we would have seen in issue 8, not now.
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Re: So Where's Pseudo Sonic?

Postby MetalSkulkBane » Wed Dec 23, 2015 5:49 am

Why are you people so surprised. Flynn needs Horde Commanders and there is little to work with. E-100 series, mechanical <insert character name>, and those very few Bosses that weren't piloted by Eggman (like from Sonic Chaos). If we want to pretend that those guys are any threat, Flynn must use his full recourses.

Or you know, make something original :wink: . Technically Thunderbolt used a new one, but it's suspiciously similar to sub boss from Angel Island Zone.
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Re: So Where's Pseudo Sonic?

Postby LBD_Nytetrayn » Wed Dec 23, 2015 11:11 am

Yeah, gonna merge...

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Re: "Too Many Mechas" or "Where's Pseudo Sonic?"

Postby Xabin » Wed Dec 23, 2015 3:52 pm

I'm still a fan of the War Walrus. The only thing about its design that confuses me is the, um... strategically placed bolts on its chest. Don't mean to be crude, but yeah, why did Eggman design it like that? The bolts seem to be hooked up in a very distinct fashion to a pair of metal slats that don't really seem to do anything but be decoration.
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Re: "Too Many Mechas" or "Where's Pseudo Sonic?"

Postby ToaArcan » Wed Dec 23, 2015 10:57 pm

Xabin wrote:I'm still a fan of the War Walrus. The only thing about its design that confuses me is the, um... strategically placed bolts on its chest. Don't mean to be crude, but yeah, why did Eggman design it like that? The bolts seem to be hooked up in a very distinct fashion to a pair of metal slats that don't really seem to do anything but be decoration.


Those will probably be the obligatory "Mostly worthless kibble" on a robot character.

Speaking of robot designs, I didn't like Mecha Sally's base form. The detailing was fine, bar the weirdness of "Roboticizers zip up vests now", but she looked far too skinny to me. I get that maybe she was meant to look skeletal, but SEGA proportions don't work with really skinny characters. Mecha Sally ended up with a tiny body and a massive head and feet, and while Sonic characters do have that sort of issue, on her it looked a little excessive. IMHO, a Robian should be bulky enough that the whole of the victim fits inside the Robian form, so to speak. If anything, it should be bulkier, due to the thicker "skin" or layers of armour.
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Re: "Too Many Mechas" or "Where's Pseudo Sonic?"

Postby DoNotDelete » Thu Dec 24, 2015 12:59 am

You talk about 'worthless kibble' but also talk about Mecha Sally being too skinny.

If the joints make use of rotary servo articulation (in preference to pnumatic piston articulation) robot limbs need be little more than thin structural metal bars. Adding anything else to these purely structural areas would be superficial/unnecessary detail/decoration (or 'worthless kibble'). I could maybe excuse additional armour plating being applied to key areas, but Mecha Sally and Metal Sonic are not tank-class mechanoids - they are speed/assassin-class mechanoids. They need to be quick and precise - additional armour would impede that functionality.

I personally find skeletal mechanoids aesthetically pleasing - but I find lots of different approaches to mechanoid design interesting - probably because mechanoid design IS interesting.

On the topic of the War Walrus' nipplebolts, I recall a short Dr. Wily comic by Hitoshi Ariga where the good Dr. explains that the 'Moby' (whale) mechaniloid is mammal because it has nipplebolts - much to Dive Man's chagrin.

So I guess nipplebolts are fair game in all-ages comics?
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Re: "Too Many Mechas" or "Where's Pseudo Sonic?"

Postby ToaArcan » Thu Dec 24, 2015 6:50 am

DoNotDelete wrote:You talk about 'worthless kibble' but also talk about Mecha Sally being too skinny.


THere's a difference between "Let's put some bolts here because robot" and "This robot looks like a skeleton when it should probably be stockier".

DoNotDelete wrote:If the joints make use of rotary servo articulation (in preference to pnumatic piston articulation) robot limbs need be little more than thin structural metal bars. Adding anything else to these purely structural areas would be superficial/unnecessary detail/decoration (or 'worthless kibble').


That works on Metal Sonic, but not so much with Mecha Sally. After all, the muscle, fat, and other fleshy bits has to have gone somewhere.

DoNotDelete wrote:Mecha Sally and Metal Sonic are not tank-class mechanoids - they are speed/assassin-class mechanoids. They need to be quick and precise - additional armour would impede that functionality.


I don't think that's true in either case.

Metal Sonic was built purely to be a physical match for Sonic, and Eggman quite clearly doesn't want anyone but himself to kill the blue hedgehog. It's more likely that Metal is designed to be a tough, but not insurmountable foe, made to slow Sonic down and tire him out before the big confrontation. Eggman doesn't want anyone else to kill Sonic, but if Sonic turns up to the "final boss" a bit late and rather tired from a fight with Metal, that's just fine. That's why Eggman keeps reusing Metal Sonic, who has never "succeeded" in his apparent mission, when he otherwise tends to give up on viable plans and machines that just need a bit of fine-tuning.

Mecha Sally, meanwhile, was a standard worker Robian. The blast that roboticized her was intended to hit the whole planet (Another thing that I find iffy, but I can accept it), so Eggman probably had the thing set up to turn the population into a slave labour force, rather than an army. THat's why Eggman weaponised her, whereas Mecha Sonic had rocket engines and laser cannons straight out of the machine. Of note, the post-weaponisation body is actually a lot better proportion-wise, even if the implications of it are cringeworthy.
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Re: "Too Many Mechas" or "Where's Pseudo Sonic?"

Postby Spin » Thu Dec 24, 2015 5:57 pm

I ended up having to wave off the War Walrus, there's just something about it that is off putting. Could be the design.

Either that or because I fail to see why Eggman bothered to build a Rotor robot counterpart out of nowhere in the first place. Or seems like the kind of thing that you expect got pulled out of Eggman's butt last second but at the worse possible time in a story arc. And if Eggman can build this, it leaves to question what other non-SegaSonic character robots are waiting around.

Spoiler: show
Don't know if the comic world is ready for robots with names like Hostile Hedgehog, Feud Fox, Combat Chipmunk, Bloodshed Bunny, and Crusade Coyote.
Last edited by Spin on Thu Dec 24, 2015 6:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Too Many Mechas" or "Where's Pseudo Sonic?"

Postby ToaArcan » Thu Dec 24, 2015 6:01 pm

Considering that the War Walrus got wasted, as did Metal Tails and Metal Amy, they probably wouldn't amount to much.

I found it irritating that Tails and Amy never met their counterparts, and they could've at least made something amusing out of the latter.

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