Is Lara Su A Mary Sue?

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Re: Is Lara Su A Mary Sue?

Postby SonicBlueRanger » Tue Feb 24, 2015 9:38 am

I can understand Ian wanting to make Lara a better character but I think he kind of failed. She really did come off really sueish under his pen.

Then again MXYL was a terrible experiment that should have never been tried in the first place so yeah.
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Re: Is Lara Su A Mary Sue?

Postby Village » Tue Feb 24, 2015 10:48 am

SonicBlueRanger wrote:I can understand Ian wanting to make Lara a better character but I think he kind of failed. She really did come off really sueish under his pen.

Then again MXYL was a terrible experiment that should have never been tried in the first place so yeah.


I Disagree, the concept of a future arc is fine, to say it never should have been tried is silly. Just executed poorly
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Re: Is Lara Su A Mary Sue?

Postby Mavrickindigo » Tue Feb 24, 2015 11:14 am

Village wrote:
SimonSays wrote:Her problem was that she couldn't just be interesting on her own. She had to have things constantly piled on top of her to up her 'cool' factor, and very few of these things really came up in meaningful ways for her character. Despite all these extra things, she's still just your everyday girl who likes to kick butt and hang with friends~!

She's Knuckles' daughter!
...Who's going to be the best guardian ever!
...Who was trained by ALL of the Chaotix!
...Who babysits Sonic and Sally's kids!
...Who has real girl problems like boys and parties and what to eat as a sleepover snack!
...Who feels her parents are too restrictive and just don't get her!
...Who has chaos powers like Shadow, and even beats him with his own abilities when Sonic himself fails!
...Who just stumbled her way into Sonic's world-saving business with as little input as possible by hiding in a box!
...Who manages to save the day despite not experiencing any of the hardship and struggle that the original cast did, she's just super great at her job, maybe she's born with it, the old cast is useless and can't get squat done now apparently, only Lara-Su can save everyone and solve all of their problems for them, you're welcome!

She's just like this quirky kid who's OP that gets involved in the big hero stuff- but where Silver plays that part well because he's clueless and actually fails a lot, Lara-Su doesn't struggle with anything. Her powers were handed to her, she has no moral dilemmas, no personal enemy or nemesis that has wronged her specifically, and her victories were quick and boring. Her whole goal is to prove she's a big girl now and can be a guardian, dad, and the stories about her are about how she was right all along and those pesky, overbearing parents had no reason to worry to begin with. Seriously, put Silver next to Lara-Su and it becomes really obvious how empty a character she is. It doesn't help that so much of her original storyline was spent hyping her up to be this person who was going to be SO IMPORTANT, but we never get to see her actually do IMPORTANT THINGS.

But this doesn't include Jani-Ca. She at least had a little more substance. Knew what she was fighting for, it was personal, she struggled, etc. Not that I was a tremendous fan of Dark Mobius, but it had more of a reason for existing to it than MXYL did, and Jani-Ca was a more satisfying character as well.


" Wait.. shouldn't shadow be more powerful than this untrained child, also isn't his powers the result of an alien entity only he could stop... also inhibitor rings.."

" KNUCKLES DAUGHTER BEATS EVERYTHING "

" oh... well ok "

Lara-Su is the child of a mutant hot pocket
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Re: Is Lara Su A Mary Sue?

Postby Azul » Tue Feb 24, 2015 11:27 am

I don't think so. So what if she's the child of two important characters? But she is written in a way that gives her way too much prominence. She can use chaos control better than Shadow, candidate for guardian of the master emerald, got her own statue in an alternate future. A Mary Sue is by all purposes perfect for the sake of being perfect. If she was adored by everyone including major characters and had no flaws then yes, that would make her a Mary Sue.

Not only is she flawed, being ill tempered like her parents, eager to fight, youthfully naive, and has people who love and hate hee alike, I don't see her as "perfection." She does get a lot of attention in MXYL, but one could argue she just has a lot of character development. If anything, she's a Creator's Pet/Favorite for Ken Penders, who is making a spin off comic with her, which by the way, ew, and part of the Spotlight Stealing Squad.
Last edited by Azul on Tue Feb 24, 2015 11:37 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Is Lara Su A Mary Sue?

Postby jazzflower92 » Tue Feb 24, 2015 11:30 am

Village wrote:
SonicBlueRanger wrote:I can understand Ian wanting to make Lara a better character but I think he kind of failed. She really did come off really sueish under his pen.

Then again MXYL was a terrible experiment that should have never been tried in the first place so yeah.


I Disagree, the concept of a future arc is fine, to say it never should have been tried is silly. Just executed poorly


First things first they should have made Queen Sally in charge while King Sonic is actually the regent so that he can have time doing hero stuff. Also make it so that he has a better relationship with all his former friends as well. Also make it so that Sonic gets the focus instead of Lara-Su because this is Sonic's story not her's.
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Re: Is Lara Su A Mary Sue?

Postby Kellox » Tue Feb 24, 2015 12:33 pm

jazzflower92 wrote:
Village wrote:
SonicBlueRanger wrote:I can understand Ian wanting to make Lara a better character but I think he kind of failed. She really did come off really sueish under his pen.

Then again MXYL was a terrible experiment that should have never been tried in the first place so yeah.


I Disagree, the concept of a future arc is fine, to say it never should have been tried is silly. Just executed poorly


First things first they should have made Queen Sally in charge while King Sonic is actually the regent so that he can have time doing hero stuff. Also make it so that he has a better relationship with all his former friends as well. Also make it so that Sonic gets the focus instead of Lara-Su because this is Sonic's story not her's.


This!!!
and if they are ever going to go down the route of giving Sally and Sonic kids give them fresh new and creative designs so they won't look like clones.
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Re: Is Lara Su A Mary Sue?

Postby Mavrickindigo » Tue Feb 24, 2015 7:10 pm

Well, really, Mobius 25 years later was a Knuckles story that had to have Sonic shoehorned in so Ken could actually write the dern thing.
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Re: Is Lara Su A Mary Sue?

Postby jazzflower92 » Tue Feb 24, 2015 7:27 pm

Mavrickindigo wrote:Well, really, Mobius 25 years later was a Knuckles story that had to have Sonic shoehorned in so Ken could actually write the dern thing.


Yeah, Knuckles and the Echidnas are to Penders like Sasuke and the Uchihas are to Kishimoto.
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Re: Is Lara Su A Mary Sue?

Postby Gonzo » Tue Feb 24, 2015 9:10 pm

I would define a Mary Sue (or Marty Stu) as a character whose powers, background, relations, etc. are not logical or plausible for the canon they are written into.

It's plausible that Lara-Su would inherit Knuckles's Chaos powers and be familiar with his friends' kids, but not that she could instantly curb-stomp King Shadow without much(?) explanation. It was more like she warped the canon itself to take him out.
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Re: Is Lara Su A Mary Sue?

Postby SimonSays » Tue Feb 24, 2015 10:31 pm

It bothers me that we've never seen Knuckles use Chaos Control or Chaos Spear to any degree in the comics, yet Lara-Su was able to use it no problem. It's perfectly fine, and expected, that she would have some sort of connection to the chaos force and the Master Emerald like her dad did, but to use Shadow's signature moves against him, when none of those people who trained her were supposed to know it? Ehhhhhhhh...
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Re: Is Lara Su A Mary Sue?

Postby DC » Wed Feb 25, 2015 6:44 am

I was fine with Lara Su, not my favorite character but I didn't dislike her either. As for if she is a Mary Sue, I am not sure, some say the term is used so much it has lost its meaning. Now I tend to see it as meaning the character is too good or talented; I have come to see it as kind of a complement.

I know the term "Mary-Su" is not really a complement. Another one of my definitions of the term Mary-su is"I hate this character and you should too."
Last edited by DC on Wed Feb 25, 2015 1:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is Lara Su A Mary Sue?

Postby Village » Wed Feb 25, 2015 8:30 am

DC wrote:I was fine with Lara Su, not my favorite character but I didn't dislike her either. As for if she is a Mary Sue, I am not sure, some say the term is used so much it has lost its meaning. Now I tend to see it as meaning the character is too good or talented; I have come to see it as kind of a complement.

Well belive me its not a compliment in this sense
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Re: Is Lara Su A Mary Sue?

Postby RWB » Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:47 am

SimonSays wrote:It bothers me that we've never seen Knuckles use Chaos Control or Chaos Spear to any degree in the comics, yet Lara-Su was able to use it no problem. It's perfectly fine, and expected, that she would have some sort of connection to the chaos force and the Master Emerald like her dad did, but to use Shadow's signature moves against him, when none of those people who trained her were supposed to know it? Ehhhhhhhh...


Honestly, it would have been better if she could sense that Shadow's Chaos Control was unstable because of his "relative craziness" and used THAT to essentially make him take himself out with it....
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Re: Is Lara Su A Mary Sue?

Postby Mavrickindigo » Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:49 pm

SimonSays wrote:It bothers me that we've never seen Knuckles use Chaos Control or Chaos Spear to any degree in the comics, yet Lara-Su was able to use it no problem. It's perfectly fine, and expected, that she would have some sort of connection to the chaos force and the Master Emerald like her dad did, but to use Shadow's signature moves against him, when none of those people who trained her were supposed to know it? Ehhhhhhhh...

Mostly because Knuckles SHOULD be able to do it, what with the whole Chaos Force thing Penders created, but because he doesn't have those kinds of powers in the games, SEGA wouldn't let him have them.
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Re: Is Lara Su A Mary Sue?

Postby SurrealBrain » Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:31 am

A lot happens in 25 years. Maybe he used them at some point and we simply never saw it?
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