Is Lara Su A Mary Sue?

Forum devoted to Sonic the Hedgehog, Sonic Universe and the entire Sonic line by Archie Comics.

Re: Is Lara Su A Mary Sue?

Postby Mavrickindigo » Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:11 am

Dejiko wrote:A lot happens in 25 years. Maybe he used them at some point and we simply never saw it?

Sounds like something Ian would consider. Knuckles can do it, but we can't show that, because that's not what SEGA wants.

Much like how they never referred to Dark Enerjak as Knuckles, even though the fans knew who it was. SEGA would have a fit if they made Knuckles a villain.
User avatar
Mavrickindigo
BumbleCult
 
Posts: 6309
Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2009 8:09 pm
Location: USA

Re: Is Lara Su A Mary Sue?

Postby Village » Thu Feb 26, 2015 10:34 am

Dejiko wrote:A lot happens in 25 years. Maybe he used them at some point and we simply never saw it?

eh... thats still stretching it

Thats like " i learned how to do this move, that shadow only knows how to do that seems to be specific to him and after his game and his origins even more specific to him, and in this time line he wouldn't teach me how to do it. So how did I learn this move? "

" Shut up Lara su tho "

" This is the exact reason no one likes this story line "
Village
BumbleCitizen
 
Posts: 430
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:59 am

Re: Is Lara Su A Mary Sue?

Postby Excelhedge » Fri Feb 27, 2015 4:59 am

To answer the main question of thread.

In my opinion she's not.

There was literally nothing done with her Character from when she was introduced. She was pretty much A bland character in M25yl Part1, she became a lot interesting when Ian completed each of respective arcs.

and I'm saying this as fan of character.
Excelhedge
BumbleKnight
 
Posts: 774
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:10 pm

Re: Is Lara Su A Mary Sue?

Postby Ryu The Weredragon » Wed Mar 04, 2015 6:55 pm

As someone who's seen many a Mary Sue, I have to say with my opinion... Yes. 100%

They come in VARIOUS styles, and no, she doesn't have flaws, she has faux flaws.
Ryu The Weredragon
BumbleKnight
 
Posts: 621
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 6:54 pm
Location: North Carolina

Re: Is Lara Su A Mary Sue?

Postby WiNTER BELLS » Wed Mar 04, 2015 8:36 pm

Mary Sue is a term that's thrown about very often and poorly... Mainly because people tend to have different opinions of the definition. The original Mary Sue was a fan character in a Star Trek Parody called "A Trekkie's Tale" who excelled in everything far above and beyond all others within her universe, single handedly saved everyone, was loved by the full cast, and would generally be considered "perfect". Lara Su is certainly portrayed as skilled and at least somewhat intelligent, but she doesn't exactly hit the same marks.

A lot of people seem to think that a character that has no distinct flaws is a Mary Su. Which is a poor way to interpret it, because this would also imply that anyone with a fairly balanced skill set would be a Mary Sue, and the real world is full of that. I really do hate the term because it tends to make a rather large rift between "Unbelievable" and "Relatable" When there shouldn't, but I digress.

Do I think Lara Su is a Mary Su?
No... but that is a poor choice of name...
And before people accuse me of otherwise... do I like Mary Su as a character?
No... She's entertaining when it comes to her interacting with the rest of the cast, but as far as story goes, she didn't really bring much to the table... Oh and sorry for the rather lengthy first post...
User avatar
WiNTER BELLS
BumbleFan
 
Posts: 60
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:18 pm

Re: Is Lara Su A Mary Sue?

Postby RWB » Wed Mar 25, 2015 6:53 pm

WiNTER BELLS wrote:
A lot of people seem to think that a character that has no distinct flaws is a Mary Su. Which is a poor way to interpret it, because this would also imply that anyone with a fairly balanced skill set would be a Mary Sue, and the real world is full of that. I really do hate the term because it tends to make a rather large rift between "Unbelievable" and "Relatable" When there shouldn't, but I digress.


Eh.

Everyone, or pretty much everyone in real life has distinct flaws. Having a balanced skillset has nothing to do with that.
RWB
BumbleNewbie
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:21 pm

Re: Is Lara Su A Mary Sue?

Postby WiNTER BELLS » Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:40 pm

I agree, Lara-Su isn't without her flaws, imo.

I did flub up my statement there though... Hmm... how should I put this? "Anyone who you can't immediately distinguish based on their flaws would be a Mary Sue"?
I'm having trouble...

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that Lara-Su has both an over-all "likable" personality (in context to the universe she's in mind you), while still possessing a good deal of power. This does not make her a Mary Sue.
User avatar
WiNTER BELLS
BumbleFan
 
Posts: 60
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:18 pm

Re: Is Lara Su A Mary Sue?

Postby SimonSays » Thu Mar 26, 2015 10:26 am

I would say a Sue is more like a character for whom the "rules" don't apply.

This character wouldn't fall in love with that character under these circumstances- except for Sue!
This organization wouldn't allow this character into their club at this age normally- except for Sue!
This fighting technique requires years of extensive training and hard work to master- except for Sue!

or even
This conflict could be more realistically resolved by other characters- except we want to include the writer's favorite Sue!

With Lara-Su, I don't think she ever fully crosses those lines: okay, it makes sense that she'd have training from the Chaotix, and oooookay, it makes sense that she might have some chaos powers, and alright, I guess it's possible she'd be chummy enough with Sonic's family to babysit their kids, and just maybe in very particular circumstances she could beat Shadow in a fight. She doesn't quite break the rules, but maaaaan does she come close sometimes.

In both the old and new MXYL stories, and maybe even a little of Dark Mobius, I was always left with the feeling of "why does it have to be Lara-Su?" Why couldn't Knuckles save the day? Why couldn't Tails, or Silver, or the Chaotix, or literally any of the heroes who are still alive? It feels like everyone else was made more inept (or conveniently shuffled off to another room to be occupied elsewhere) in order for her to shine as a character, and if you have to do that to make one character awesome, then maybe they're not that awesome after all. In the old MXYL, she doesn't do anything, so why is the story told from her perspective? The "rules" of writing an interesting story about a relevant character are tossed out because she's the favorite and the writer wants to see her at a slumber party.

I think that definition of a Sue is the same reason it's often applied to Sally- she hardly ever gets called out on any of the hypocritical or lousy things she does, but any other character doing the same thing would probably meet some backlash. It's not just things like "she's a princess" or "lots of boys like her"- it's whether those things are consistent with both her behavior and the behavior of the characters around her, or just forced in for cool factor. It's not necessarily about having flaws or not, but just that there are realistic repercussions, good and bad, for what a character does.

I'd also say that in talking about a character, it's better to think of them as having Sue-moments, rather than being a 100% bonafide Mary-Sue. "Sue", in my mind, refers to a failure on the writer's part to accurately account for how this character would interact with their environment, not a blacklist of traits no character should ever have. Just... some characters have more moments than others. :B

It's not like they're impossible to like or relate to at times. But when it occurs repeatedly and in many different ways, it gets more difficult to find the real character hidden inside all the reality warping going on around them.
User avatar
SimonSays
BumbleNoble
 
Posts: 2222
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2010 5:30 pm

Re: Is Lara Su A Mary Sue?

Postby Mavrickindigo » Sat Mar 28, 2015 1:16 pm

The thing is that by the time Lara Su is around, the progatonists of the previous age are the useless adults. Remember how awesome Bernadette was during the great war? Then everytime we see her in the present, she's Susie Homemaker

Just another Penders trait: make old progatonists useless so new ones can shine.
User avatar
Mavrickindigo
BumbleCult
 
Posts: 6309
Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2009 8:09 pm
Location: USA

Re: Is Lara Su A Mary Sue?

Postby WiNTER BELLS » Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:09 pm

SimonSays wrote:With Lara-Su, I don't think she ever fully crosses those lines: okay, it makes sense that she'd have training from the Chaotix, and oooookay, it makes sense that she might have some chaos powers, and alright, I guess it's possible she'd be chummy enough with Sonic's family to babysit their kids, and just maybe in very particular circumstances she could beat Shadow in a fight. She doesn't quite break the rules, but maaaaan does she come close sometimes.

In both the old and new MXYL stories, and maybe even a little of Dark Mobius, I was always left with the feeling of "why does it have to be Lara-Su?" Why couldn't Knuckles save the day? Why couldn't Tails, or Silver, or the Chaotix, or literally any of the heroes who are still alive? It feels like everyone else was made more inept (or conveniently shuffled off to another room to be occupied elsewhere) in order for her to shine as a character, and if you have to do that to make one character awesome, then maybe they're not that awesome after all. In the old MXYL, she doesn't do anything, so why is the story told from her perspective? The "rules" of writing an interesting story about a relevant character are tossed out because she's the favorite and the writer wants to see her at a slumber party.

I think that definition of a Sue is the same reason it's often applied to Sally- she hardly ever gets called out on any of the hypocritical or lousy things she does, but any other character doing the same thing would probably meet some backlash. It's not just things like "she's a princess" or "lots of boys like her"- it's whether those things are consistent with both her behavior and the behavior of the characters around her, or just forced in for cool factor. It's not necessarily about having flaws or not, but just that there are realistic repercussions, good and bad, for what a character does.

I wouldn't really consider the Chaotix an elite task force... besides, Knuckles was taught by Locke and a fire breathing, ninja ant. I wouldn't say she so much "beat" Shadow as much as "put a box on him and put him in a fridge". and I don't think that the babysitting thing is really out there enough to warrant invoking Sue. I'd say that Lara-Su saved the day to bring a new angle on the story instead of making it "The Adventures of Sonic the 47-Year-Old Hedgehog" (Hindsight, that would be hilarious). New world(-ish) new heroes so to speak. As for doing anything hypocritical or "lousy" could you give me an example? Sally's had some rough spots in writing, and you can mark a lot of it to the writers of the time... Though nothing quite equated to "The Great Sally Slap of 04" *Dons eye patch and speaks in old-people voice*.
User avatar
WiNTER BELLS
BumbleFan
 
Posts: 60
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:18 pm

Previous

Return to This Side of Mobius



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests