MM#55 - Spoilers & Discussion

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Re: MM#55 - Spoilers & Discussion

Postby Kureejii Lea » Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:44 am

DoNotDelete wrote:[My biggest criticism is that I got the feeling you were trying to set this issue up as some kind of 'Mega Man Tribute' art book or something - if that was your intention it didn't come off hugely successfully either. As nice as Ryan's artwork is - and I don't know how big your role was in plotting each image (meaning the blame for what I'm about to say may not be entirely on Ryan) - the artwork feels very samey and becomes boring very quickly - and I can't really blame Ryan for that because the whole point of a tribute art book is that a lot of different artists get to throw their hand in - and with different artists come different approaches to producing a piece of page art - meaning each page could have offered a different and fresh perspective - as the actual 'Mega Man Tribute' art books do.

So I guess what I'm saying is - if the premise was to produce some kind of art book tribute - knowing that only one artist was going to be producing all the interior artwork, then the idea for Mega Man #55 - though well-intentioned - was doomed to fall flat on its face (artistically speaking). Not that Ryan isn't an awesome artist who I have a great deal of respect for. Though - for a comic book coming to the end of its run I don't know how feasible it would have been to have each page be produced by a different artist - but isn't that something you would have/could have/should have considered in writing/plotting this final issue?


Writers don't typically get to pick/assign/dictate who does the artwork. That aside, Ryan did half the issue. No offense, but it comes off as a bit rude to complain that there should have been more artists involved while completely overlooking Jamal's contribution.
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Re: MM#55 - Spoilers & Discussion

Postby DoNotDelete » Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:51 am

Ooops. My bad. I must have missed/forgotten that there were two artists contributing to MM#55. Sincere apologies for any rudeness. Respect to Jamal for his contributions, of course.
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Re: MM#55 - Spoilers & Discussion

Postby Mordum » Sun Jan 24, 2016 11:01 am

DoNotDelete wrote:I don't know that this issue came across as 'cerebral', I can't say I found it intellectually challenging at all.


It's simultaneously too obtuse for the general Bumbleking demo and not nearly obtuse enough for others, which is kind of a fascinating middle ground.

Though while I don't necessarily agree with your assessment of Archie Megaman (because of my deep, sensual mancrush on everything involving Ra Moon), the insistence that the issue is supposed to be unpacked layer after layer but is ALSO a bit heavy handed is a microcosm of the series if there ever was one.

I think Flynn's Megaman work easily outdoes a lot of Sanic, though Sanic has had some wonderful stuff.
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Re: MM#55 - Spoilers & Discussion

Postby DoNotDelete » Sun Jan 24, 2016 11:08 am

On that note: I think my general indifference to Archie Mega Man is also that I don't have the same kind of nostalgia pangs for anything Mega Man (Classic) that I do for Sonic. Archie Sonic and Archie Mega Man need to take into account both the power of nostalgia and quality of the writing when making analyses of how/why they have succeeded/fallen short, as does most franchise-based materiel.
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Re: MM#55 - Spoilers & Discussion

Postby SonicBlueRanger » Sun Jan 24, 2016 2:25 pm

DoNotDelete wrote:On that note: I think my general indifference to Archie Mega Man is also that I don't have the same kind of nostalgia pangs for anything Mega Man (Classic) that I do for Sonic. Archie Sonic and Archie Mega Man need to take into account both the power of nostalgia and quality of the writing when making analyses of how/why they have succeeded/fallen short, as does most franchise-based materiel.


I don't think that's entirely true. I loved the book and I have no Nostalgia for Mega Man. I came onto the book entirely because my brother was subscribed and already a huge Mega Man fan and because Flynn was writing. I had zero connection to the games and honestly still don't but the writing, the world and the characters hooked me completely.
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Re: MM#55 - Spoilers & Discussion

Postby Uwaaii » Sun Jan 24, 2016 3:48 pm

I may be one of the few that likes the Megaman series but wasn't satisfied with the Archie version of the comic. There were many good parts, and I read the comic until the end because of that, but there were many tiny bad pieces here and there that gradually piled up to the point I was shocked but wasn't that sad when it was announced that comic was going to be canceled. Archie Sonic is impressive and good (except for some of the character design), and I haven't read Boom but I hear it's good too, so I thought their style didn't match Megaman. Or perhaps their magic just didn't work on me, since I don't read western comics that much and I love the Japanese version of Megaman so much.
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Re: MM#55 - Spoilers & Discussion

Postby MetalSkulkBane » Sun Jan 24, 2016 4:00 pm

Mordum wrote:
DoNotDelete wrote:I don't know that this issue came across as 'cerebral', I can't say I found it intellectually challenging at all.


It's simultaneously too obtuse for the general Bumbleking demo and not nearly obtuse enough for others


Thanks for calling us stupid.
And even if this wasn't your message, this is exactly how I feel right now.

I'm sorry, but can ANYONE tell me what I'm missing here? I keep looking at every page, hoping that I find any larger meaning then "hey, Proto Man isn't' wearing a scarf, cause he's fake" and find nothing. It's one thing when I don't understand "art", but now I don't even see it!

At least exam one page so i know this isn't just a troll joke on Flynn's part. I don't want remember Megaman like this :(
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Re: MM#55 - Spoilers & Discussion

Postby Mordum » Mon Jan 25, 2016 9:28 am

DoNotDelete wrote:On that note: I think my general indifference to Archie Mega Man is also that I don't have the same kind of nostalgia pangs for anything Mega Man (Classic) that I do for Sonic. Archie Sonic and Archie Mega Man need to take into account both the power of nostalgia and quality of the writing when making analyses of how/why they have succeeded/fallen short, as does most franchise-based materiel.


I have no nostalgia for Mega Man (if I did, though, it'd be firmly in NT Warrior; that show was beast). Speaking for myself, most of my love of Mega Man comes from the fact I adore cute cartoon characters being angsty and sad all day. It is one of my favorite things in the world.

That being said? You certainly have a point. Mega Man's writing sensibilities are so unlike what I tend to enjoy in my entertainment (very literal minded in how it interprets its source material), but something about it rounds out into being enjoyable. For all the arcs where Megaman literally fights through a gaggle of Rowbit Masters, which does get a little weird after a while, you get stuff like "Well, time to introduce an alien space god because he has the robots from Megaman 2 and 3", which I think is the single greatest example of really straightforward adaptational thinking paying off exquisitely. I still wish the entire comic was like the Ra Moon arc, where it had this straightfaced attempt to extrapolate its alleged themes of free will and sentience as man made their own angels but there is a space god who clearly does not fit in the setting just doing things.

I don't think there's much fan incentive to notice how little Megaman ultimately makes sense BECAUSE the reasons it doesn't make sense are entirely founded in obscure canon and trivia; things that are there because you know they were there. I think if you're looking for a straightlaced Megaman adaptation, nostalgia absolutely helps. If you're like me and enjoy unbridled insanity and unironic angst put together, the comic is ALSO a really great time...but maybe a victim of its own philosophies every now and again.

It's still very odd for a series so focused on literalism that Megaman actually kills eight bosses in a row with powers he gains from them to try and end on a surreal note, but at the same time...it kinda fits? The fact it doesn't make a lick of structural sense vis a vis what came before may make the issue itself fairly weak, but it's also part of the comic's charm. Megaman is a legitimately interesting comic, where it's simultaneously dedicated to creating some platonic ideal of what Megaman is supposed to be as a story but due to both executive influence and its own bizarre sense of what qualifies as important ends up being a fascinating mess kept together by really admirable emotional consistency. It's a truly vivid and endearing cast of characters living in what nobody notices is an utter nonsense world. It's great for the reasons franchises like Power Rangers and Yu-Gi-Oh! are; it's equally endearingly well written and thematically warm (edit: Er maybe PR doesn't completely qualify for that part), but also breaking out into Tourette's syndrome at random intervals.
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Re: MM#55 - Spoilers & Discussion

Postby lalalei2001 » Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:10 pm

I found something from an interview that explains one of the easter eggs :)

TMMN: Are there any little Easter Eggs or tidbits that maybe you had a hand in planting, but people didn't pick up on that you would like to share now?

Ian: I’m sure there were -- I loved putting in in-jokes and obscure trivia. But it’s been so long now, I can’t remember most them off the top of my head! There were tons in Mega Man #55, but to pick one: on the page dedicated to Mega Man & Bass, look at the placement of Astro Man and Tengu Man specifically. They’re both survivors of King’s army, and since Astro Man is supposed to be a bit of a coward, he’s hiding behind Tengu Man/Tengu Man is protecting him from Mega Man, Proto Man, and Bass.
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Re: MM#55 - Spoilers & Discussion

Postby Uwaaii » Thu Jan 28, 2016 12:42 am

lalalei2001 wrote:I found something from an interview that explains one of the easter eggs :)

TMMN: Are there any little Easter Eggs or tidbits that maybe you had a hand in planting, but people didn't pick up on that you would like to share now?

Ian: I’m sure there were -- I loved putting in in-jokes and obscure trivia. But it’s been so long now, I can’t remember most them off the top of my head! There were tons in Mega Man #55, but to pick one: on the page dedicated to Mega Man & Bass, look at the placement of Astro Man and Tengu Man specifically. They’re both survivors of King’s army, and since Astro Man is supposed to be a bit of a coward, he’s hiding behind Tengu Man/Tengu Man is protecting him from Mega Man, Proto Man, and Bass.

Did he mean "survivor of MM8", I think Megaman&Bass comes after MM8. Astroman that King used was a copy created from a data of the one in the museum after MM8, so he's technically not a "survivor". According to the database (that Ian tend to use for the robots), Tengu man is arrogant and overconfident who joined King's army for revenge, so I'm surprised he's willingly protecting someone from an enemy.
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Re: MM#55 - Spoilers & Discussion

Postby 009* » Sat Feb 06, 2016 5:07 pm

Uwaaii wrote:
lalalei2001 wrote:I found something from an interview that explains one of the easter eggs :)

TMMN: Are there any little Easter Eggs or tidbits that maybe you had a hand in planting, but people didn't pick up on that you would like to share now?

Ian: I’m sure there were -- I loved putting in in-jokes and obscure trivia. But it’s been so long now, I can’t remember most them off the top of my head! There were tons in Mega Man #55, but to pick one: on the page dedicated to Mega Man & Bass, look at the placement of Astro Man and Tengu Man specifically. They’re both survivors of King’s army, and since Astro Man is supposed to be a bit of a coward, he’s hiding behind Tengu Man/Tengu Man is protecting him from Mega Man, Proto Man, and Bass.

Did he mean "survivor of MM8", I think Megaman&Bass comes after MM8. Astroman that King used was a copy created from a data of the one in the museum after MM8, so he's technically not a "survivor". According to the database (that Ian tend to use for the robots), Tengu man is arrogant and overconfident who joined King's army for revenge, so I'm surprised he's willingly protecting someone from an enemy.

Might have to do with the fact that the heroes could get Astro Crush again if Astro Man falls. Say what you will about the game, but AC was a fun weapon.
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Re: MM#55 - Spoilers & Discussion

Postby EvilEddie » Sat Feb 06, 2016 9:56 pm

Astro Man doesn't Astro Crush in Mega Man and Bass he gives Copy Vision.
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