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Re: New Archie Sonic: Online Discussion - Plots and Planning

Postby MetalSkulkBane » Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:24 pm

The Shadow Sage wrote:
MetalSkulkBane wrote:
The Shadow Sage wrote:- Sleuth Dawg. Know he retired, but there could still be possibilities with him. Could even bring back Kicks a Lot too.


Okay people, let's slow down a little. Next "plotpoint" we'll pull out will be Betty Butterfly, because Flynn just might had a great plans for her.

I'm doing exactly what the point of this week is, and that is to mention plot points, no matter how minuscule they be. Was it not you who had wrote the line about "if you're really fastidious...Sonic's coma from StH#51." I was doing the exact same thing as you. Don't belittle what other people bring up. It's quite rude. Sorry about the rant, that was just uncalled for in my opinion. And if you weren't trying to be mean, then I apologize about this rant.

The point suppose to be talking about unresolved plot points. StH #51is unresolved plot point that is probably too old to move, while "Sleuth leaving" is a end to his story. We COULD bring him back, but that doesn't make it unresolved plot point.
But if everyone's fine with that, then I don't care. I didn't wanted to be rude, I just tried to keep discussion topic. Sorry if I offended you.

Hmm, do most rude people even know when they being rude? Or do they simply think they are being 'right' and other person is butt for whining at them.

FritzyBeat wrote:
The Shadow Sage wrote:And also, not sure if this really counts as "plot points" or not, but what about the inclusion of post-reboot characters into pre-reboot universe? Or do we want to keep new characters out of it altogether?

This is just me, but I think that ideally we should stick as closely to the original story ideas Ian had (which hopefully will come out soon in LHT) and then as the story ideas and concepts become less specific and more broad (like supposedly at some point Ian wouldn't have every issue planned out, and ideas for stories would be more spaced out leaving lots of inbetween room) then new concepts can be added in. Perhaps based on the new continuity, or the games, or fan concepts and ideas.

That's actually one of the main reasons I think we should work with LHT, it provides a starting point filled with formerly more-or-less-cannon stories to continue from, that will inevitably over time become more and more space until they run out, leaving more room as time goes on for additional fan ideas.

That's just my thoughts anyway. Plus, the idea that one could work on a comic based on Ian Flynns original comic ideas is far more appealing than working on a comic conceived by one or more fans merely based off the old continuity~

Personally I think we shouldn't touch Reboot. The whole idea is to use Preboot world.
Ideally I think we should follow LHT as close as possible, adding own ideas only if it's necessary, then close all important loose ends and give feeling of closure to to old universe. Then we will decide whenever we want to continue or is our job done.
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Re: New Archie Sonic: Online Discussion - Plots and Planning

Postby SimonSays » Wed Aug 26, 2015 4:07 pm

TuxKnux wrote:2. My only idea for a prompt could also be construed as a question for you, SimonSays. There's a group on DeviantArt (http://lost-hedgehog-tales.deviantart.com/) that's planning to adapt the stories based on Lost Hedgehog Tales. How would you (and by extension, the community here) like to correlate this project with that one, if at all? I think it would be highly confusing if two different groups were both continuing the Pre-Super Genesis Wave storyline, and I'm pretty sure it could lead to quite a fiasco down the road if we don't figure things out.

Just FYI, I recently volunteered to help administrate the LHT project. But I don't know what's going to happen over there since I have no idea when Lost Hedgehog Tales will be released. There are some fantastic artists signed up for that project, though, and I would really like all of us to be on the same page, whatever we end up deciding to do.

This would be a good thing to talk about when we talk about using LHT or not, maybe, since they're intent on using LHT. I'll add that as a prompt.

I'll be totally honest, I have no idea what groups are out there that want to attempt a project like this. There were a lot that popped up years ago, but I don't know which ones are still around, so I'll rely on others to inform me about that stuff. I'd like some people from that project to be a part of the conversation if possible. I'll look into it before we get to that week's discussion.

The Shadow Sage wrote:And also, not sure if this really counts as "plot points" or not, but what about the inclusion of post-reboot characters into pre-reboot universe? Or do we want to keep new characters out of it altogether?

My gut reaction would be to say leave them out completely since it's (seemingly) totally unrelated. If it's something that people would like to consider though, I'll add it to the prompt. But I think unless some of the new characters were mentioned in LHT it's best to leave either continuity separate from the other. We can still see the new characters in the comics, but the point of an AS:O would be to make use of what we had before and can't see anymore. Not trying to shoot the idea down- it might be interesting to see pre-reboot counterparts to those characters- but I don't think that that's something most people are looking for in the project.

MetalSkulkBane wrote:
The Shadow Sage wrote:
MetalSkulkBane wrote:Okay people, let's slow down a little. Next "plotpoint" we'll pull out will be Betty Butterfly, because Flynn just might had a great plans for her.

I'm doing exactly what the point of this week is, and that is to mention plot points, no matter how minuscule they be. Was it not you who had wrote the line about "if you're really fastidious...Sonic's coma from StH#51." I was doing the exact same thing as you. Don't belittle what other people bring up. It's quite rude. Sorry about the rant, that was just uncalled for in my opinion. And if you weren't trying to be mean, then I apologize about this rant.

The point suppose to be talking about unresolved plot points. StH #51is unresolved plot point that is probably too old to move, while "Sleuth leaving" is a end to his story. We COULD bring him back, but that doesn't make it unresolved plot point.
But if everyone's fine with that, then I don't care. I didn't wanted to be rude, I just tried to keep discussion topic. Sorry if I offended you.

Hmm, do most rude people even know when they being rude? Or do they simply think they are being 'right' and other person is butt for whining at them.

I'd like both of you to please leave the cattyness out of this thread. I already explained and clarified the goals of the prompt. If there's confusion, just ASK ME instead of sniping at each other.
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Re: New Archie Sonic: Online Discussion - Plots and Planning

Postby TuxKnux » Wed Aug 26, 2015 4:45 pm

SimonSays wrote:
TuxKnux wrote:2. My only idea for a prompt could also be construed as a question for you, SimonSays. There's a group on DeviantArt (http://lost-hedgehog-tales.deviantart.com/) that's planning to adapt the stories based on Lost Hedgehog Tales. How would you (and by extension, the community here) like to correlate this project with that one, if at all? I think it would be highly confusing if two different groups were both continuing the Pre-Super Genesis Wave storyline, and I'm pretty sure it could lead to quite a fiasco down the road if we don't figure things out.

Just FYI, I recently volunteered to help administrate the LHT project. But I don't know what's going to happen over there since I have no idea when Lost Hedgehog Tales will be released. There are some fantastic artists signed up for that project, though, and I would really like all of us to be on the same page, whatever we end up deciding to do.

This would be a good thing to talk about when we talk about using LHT or not, maybe, since they're intent on using LHT. I'll add that as a prompt.

I'll be totally honest, I have no idea what groups are out there that want to attempt a project like this. There were a lot that popped up years ago, but I don't know which ones are still around, so I'll rely on others to inform me about that stuff. I'd like some people from that project to be a part of the conversation if possible. I'll look into it before we get to that week's discussion.


Okay. While I wait for that week, I can do some digging about those projects.

Also, I'm part of that project and I'm here, so... would you like me to pass the existence of this project on to the rest of the group?

Oh, and another general question/prompt:

Will we be establishing any kind of relationship between the reboot and the continuation of the old universe? For example, issue #252 could start similar to #230 and have the Interdimesional Gateway fail and the blue Chaos Emerald be teleported to some random location on Mobius. That way, the Genesis Wave (and thus, the reboot) could never have happened.

But trying to explain how this worked, and how the reboot universe still exists, would be quite the challenge. Or are we just going to ignore the new continuity?
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Re: New Archie Sonic: Online Discussion - Plots and Planning

Postby SimonSays » Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:18 pm

TuxKnux wrote:Okay. While I wait for that week, I can do some digging about those projects.

Also, I'm part of that project and I'm here, so... would you like me to pass the existence of this project on to the rest of the group?

Oh, and another general question/prompt:

Will we be establishing any kind of relationship between the reboot and the continuation of the old universe? For example, issue #252 could start similar to #230 and have the Interdimesional Gateway fail and the blue Chaos Emerald be teleported to some random location on Mobius. That way, the Genesis Wave (and thus, the reboot) could never have happened.

But trying to explain how this worked, and how the reboot universe still exists, would be quite the challenge. Or are we just going to ignore the new continuity?

I sent a note to the group inviting them to join in on the conversation if they wanted to. But since you're already here I'll count on you to keep the communication going between the two groups. Ambassador TuxKnux. :P

As for the relationship between the two continuities, that sounds like something that might be worked into the story once we start writing it. It seems a little too specific to have a broad impact on the structure of the comic, but it would be neat if the story somehow addressed it. I think that might be something that's better considered at the actual writing stage, but we can explore that idea when we talk about whether to keep Worlds Collide or not. I'll add it.
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Re: New Archie Sonic: Online Discussion - Plots and Planning

Postby diamonddeath » Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:29 pm

I actually started a thread about this a while back because I am interested in doing work on it. I pretty much worked out how it can fit in with canon by having been separated from the prime zone that is in the comics today. If we actually work on this, I'd like to play a big part in its creation if possible.
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Re: New Archie Sonic: Online Discussion - Plots and Planning

Postby Striker » Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:39 pm

SimonSays wrote:
The Shadow Sage wrote:And also, not sure if this really counts as "plot points" or not, but what about the inclusion of post-reboot characters into pre-reboot universe? Or do we want to keep new characters out of it altogether?

My gut reaction would be to say leave them out completely since it's (seemingly) totally unrelated. If it's something that people would like to consider though, I'll add it to the prompt. But I think unless some of the new characters were mentioned in LHT it's best to leave either continuity separate from the other. We can still see the new characters in the comics, but the point of an AS:O would be to make use of what we had before and can't see anymore. Not trying to shoot the idea down- it might be interesting to see pre-reboot counterparts to those characters- but I don't think that that's something most people are looking for in the project.

Honestly the only character that we might consider using is Eclipse. Other than that i doubt there would be any reason to use any other reboot characters.

Only reason I bring up eclipse is cause of Black Arms stuff but even him existing is sketchy as the Black Arms have no reason to believe that Shadow would fight them when they finally appear. But this is a convo for another time so ill leave it at that.
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Re: New Archie Sonic: Online Discussion - Plots and Planning

Postby Mobotropolis » Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:49 pm

Think we should put it up to vote at a later date. Anyone keeping track of what we'll eventually vote on?

I wouldn't mind some like Eclipse, Honey, and Breezie showing up after we blow through the " canon " material, but I don't think we need any more Egg Bosses/Grandmasters.
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Re: New Archie Sonic: Online Discussion - Plots and Planning

Postby MetalSkulkBane » Thu Aug 27, 2015 5:00 am

SimonSays wrote:I'll be totally honest, I have no idea what groups are out there that want to attempt a project like this. There were a lot that popped up years ago, but I don't know which ones are still around, so I'll rely on others to inform me about that stuff. I'd like some people from that project to be a part of the conversation if possible. I'll look into it before we get to that week's discussion.

Maybe we should ask Flynn for help? If I tried to do project like this I would try to get "blessing" from original writer. He could inform us about every group that calls him.

TuxKnux wrote:Will we be establishing any kind of relationship between the reboot and the continuation of the old universe? For example, issue #252 could start similar to #230 and have the Interdimesional Gateway fail and the blue Chaos Emerald be teleported to some random location on Mobius. That way, the Genesis Wave (and thus, the reboot) could never have happened.

But trying to explain how this worked, and how the reboot universe still exists, would be quite the challenge. Or are we just going to ignore the new continuity?


I think we should leave it for later, after we finish LHT. Then we have 3 options
1 Merged both worlds and start adapting characters from Reboot like Eclipse or Captain Metal. (In fact, why stop there? We don't have license issues, we could add Sticks, Cosmo, Sonia & Manic, Fleetway's characters any continuity we want)
2 Stayed that there are two universes and maybe do a Preboot/Reboot crossover (again, we could do other crossovers, like Archie/Fleetway)
3 Stay "true to original vision" and never do any form of interaction between different continuities, since Archie would probably never do those.
Personally I would prefer option 2, possibly 1. Third option is unnecessary limiting.

SimonSays wrote:
MetalSkulkBane wrote:
The Shadow Sage wrote:
MetalSkulkBane wrote:Okay people, let's slow down a little. Next "plotpoint" we'll pull out will be Betty Butterfly, because Flynn just might had a great plans for her.

I'm doing exactly what the point of this week is, and that is to mention plot points, no matter how minuscule they be. Was it not you who had wrote the line about "if you're really fastidious...Sonic's coma from StH#51." I was doing the exact same thing as you. Don't belittle what other people bring up. It's quite rude. Sorry about the rant, that was just uncalled for in my opinion. And if you weren't trying to be mean, then I apologize about this rant.

The point suppose to be talking about unresolved plot points. StH #51is unresolved plot point that is probably too old to move, while "Sleuth leaving" is a end to his story. We COULD bring him back, but that doesn't make it unresolved plot point.
But if everyone's fine with that, then I don't care. I didn't wanted to be rude, I just tried to keep discussion topic. Sorry if I offended you.

Hmm, do most rude people even know when they being rude? Or do they simply think they are being 'right' and other person is butt for whining at them.

I'd like both of you to please leave the cattyness out of this thread. I already explained and clarified the goals of the prompt. If there's confusion, just ASK ME instead of sniping at each other.

For Chaos sake... (deep breathe). We're not being "catty". We just simply had different opinions on discussion on this thread. Sage thought I might be rude, but left option that he misunderstood me. I explained my position and imminently apologized if I offended him. I really don't think we're being uncivilized.
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Re: New Archie Sonic: Online Discussion - Plots and Planning

Postby Spectre the Hechidnat » Thu Aug 27, 2015 2:44 pm

I like the idea of including stuff from the reboot continuity and other Sonic franchises. The ShadowEmperor came up with some cool ways to include the likes of Eclipse, Black Death, and Relic, something I tried to emulate in my "Loneliness" fic. I don't think it's too much of a stretch that Eggman would have more Dark Egg Legion/Egg Army chapters; Mobius was a large enough planet and the various groups apparently ineffective enough that adding a few more units sounds fairly logical. I also like the idea of including the Metarex, possibly as taking advantage of the Black Arms' war with the Xorda to conquer the planets they leave behind.
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Re: New Archie Sonic: Online Discussion - Plots and Planning

Postby SimonSays » Thu Aug 27, 2015 2:54 pm

Speaking of the Metarex made me think of another prompt:

Do we want to follow the SEGA guidelines in a continuation to be as authentic as possible, or ignore them because we don't HAVE to follow them? This includes stuff like the gizoids, nocturnus, Sonic X stuff, Nega, etc. The real comic wouldn't have been able to use that stuff and we wouldn't have seen it happen- but do we care?
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Re: New Archie Sonic: Online Discussion - Plots and Planning

Postby QuantamEdge » Thu Aug 27, 2015 3:14 pm

SimonSays wrote:Speaking of the Metarex made me think of another prompt:

Do we want to follow the SEGA guidelines in a continuation to be as authentic as possible, or ignore them because we don't HAVE to follow them? This includes stuff like the gizoids, nocturnus, Sonic X stuff, Nega, etc. The real comic wouldn't have been able to use that stuff and we wouldn't have seen it happen- but do we care?

Not sure about using the X stuff, but I think including Nega, the Gizoids and the Nocturnus would be a good idea, considering they'd been alluded to in various stories and the encyclopedia. Specifically Nega since he's involved with that war with the Zone Cops. The Nocturnus are stuck in the Twilight Cage, so they wouldn't be quite as important.
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Re: New Archie Sonic: Online Discussion - Plots and Planning

Postby MetalSkulkBane » Thu Aug 27, 2015 3:30 pm

SimonSays wrote:Speaking of the Metarex made me think of another prompt:

Do we want to follow the SEGA guidelines in a continuation to be as authentic as possible, or ignore them because we don't HAVE to follow them? This includes stuff like the gizoids, nocturnus, Sonic X stuff, Nega, etc. The real comic wouldn't have been able to use that stuff and we wouldn't have seen it happen- but do we care?

Sure, why not. It would be stupid to never use Nega.
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Re: New Archie Sonic: Online Discussion - Plots and Planning

Postby Mordum » Thu Aug 27, 2015 3:44 pm

SimonSays wrote:Speaking of the Metarex made me think of another prompt:

Do we want to follow the SEGA guidelines in a continuation to be as authentic as possible, or ignore them because we don't HAVE to follow them? This includes stuff like the gizoids, nocturnus, Sonic X stuff, Nega, etc. The real comic wouldn't have been able to use that stuff and we wouldn't have seen it happen- but do we care?


It depends on what the goal is. If your goal is for organic development and authenticity, ignoring those guidelines is already breaking those. There'd be no real point in continuing that old continuity if you're opening yourself up to using things it never would've used.

I feel like those guidelines, while annoying at times, are just as a part of any produced material as what is actually produced. It'd be like doing a fan driven Hannibal season 4 and using Silence of the Lambs: do you actually want to explore this specific interpretation, or are you just using it as a vehicle to fill fanservice quotas?
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Re: New Archie Sonic: Online Discussion - Plots and Planning

Postby Mobotropolis » Thu Aug 27, 2015 7:14 pm

That is an interesting question.

If we do adhere to Sega's Mandates then how far down the rabbit hole are we going to allow that to go? Sega seemed to have a thing against showing Sonic losing or in a dire situation. Also during the later-days in the run we got the family mandate where Ian had to dance around calling Rosemary Tails' mother and Chuck Sonic's uncle. If we ever go back to XYL after adapting Lost Hedgehog Tales Amy would be out of the question apparently. The rumor around the mill was that she was not allowed to be shown dating/settling down with anyone but Sonic which is why she was the only one of the four main SegaSonic Characters to simply vanish.

I can understand the desire to create a product that is as " authentic " as possible, but I can also understand the need to branch out somewhat and do things that would not have been allowed. Ian and the other writers do their best to put out an entertaining book under such restriction, but every so often we do see a baffling decision or something or another suffer because of something from higher up.
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Re: New Archie Sonic: Online Discussion - Plots and Planning

Postby FritzyBeat » Thu Aug 27, 2015 10:23 pm

While some limitations can be good (they often stimulate creativity), I think in the case of the SEGA mandates, there is really no need to follow them at all. Or at least most of the ones we remember.

For the most part, they do more to prevent some creativity than to stimulate it, and what creativity it DOES stimulate, as Ian Flynn has proven over the years, is just creative ways to dance around those restrictions. *shot* I'm sure some of those restrictions will come through the stories Ian originally planned, especially since he wrote them while keeping those mandates in mind, but I don't think we need to worry about them too much.

Some things like making sure the comic is still kid-friendly, or other rules that really made the comic what it is should probably stay in place, but the ones we are all familiar with (Sonic can't cry, Sonic can't loose, you can't name Sonic's world, etc...) could probably stand to be ignored if it was a choice between sticking to mandates, or creating a better comic that it would be with them.
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