Archie Sonic: Online - MOVING! Check OP for link

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Archie Sonic: Online - MOVING! Check OP for link

Postby SimonSays » Sun Aug 23, 2015 5:01 pm

Old OP:
Spoiler: show
Hello, Bumblepeeps!

Since we've had some renewed interest in doing a continuation of the pre-reboot Archie Sonic stories, I figure it's a good time to make a brand new thread and get talking about how we'd go about doing it.

Now, a project like this would be huuuge, and is going to take a lot of work- but it's certainly doable if we can get ourselves organized. We just need to break it down into smaller pieces and deal with them one at a time. We're not ready to just jump into writing scripts and recruiting artists. First we need to figure out what we would even want an AS:O to be like.

So here's how this thread is going to work:

I'm going to post a prompt every week on Monday to get people discussing some ideas, so that we can gauge each other's opinions and all be on the same page as far as what our vision for the project is. For some of the prompts, I will also post a strawpoll to tally opinions. I will post these polls the Saturday before a prompt is over, to give enough time for discussion to circulate. Note: Strawpolls are NOT deciding anything. They are only there to provide an image of what the majority is feeling.

RULES AND GUIDELINES
    - Feel free to respond to and debate these points with each other if you agree or disagree (but do it respectfully and without insulting the other person's intelligence, please), this stage of planning is all about weighing the pros and cons of our options. (Seriously though, don't be a jerk. Just be nice. It's that easy.)

    - Please post a thorough explanation for your opinions to the best of your ability, as this will help motivate further discussion. I'll give an example of the kind of responses I'm looking for each time I post a prompt.

    - Please answer only the current prompt that is posted. I'm not going to outright forbid people from discussing previous prompts, but please indicate which old prompt you are answering, and also answer the current prompt. Recognize that going back to an old topic we have already talked about and moved on from is distracting from the current discussion and puts us off track.

    - Understand that the majority might decide to take AS:O in a different direction than you envision. Not everyone's ideas are going to be used, not everyone is going to be able to get their way. The goal is going to be to please as many people as possible, but it's not going to be everyone. Try to be a good sport about it. If this is going to discourage you, you may not want to end up joining the team.

    - No fan ideas. Yet. We're not even close to writing out arcs yet. We haven't even decided whether to use LHT or not! So be patient and hold onto that Google Doc with your ideas for the next 50 issues a little bit longer. (I don't mean little things like "I think there's a lot of story potential with Rob being on Little Planet instead of in Mercia." I mean like "Here's my script for a four-way fight between Knuckles, Thrash, Finitevus, and Scourge." Now is not the time.)

PREVIOUS PROMPTS
23 August - 31 August
Plots and Planning
- What plot elements were unresolved at the end of the reboot? Let's identify everything that needed to be wrapped up.
- Share any ideas for prompt topics you think we should discuss in the future, if you have any.
Jump to Start of Discussion Summary Post

31 August - 7 September
To Use LHT or Not to Use LHT?
- Do we want to wait for Lost Hedgehog Tales in order to incorporate those ideas into what we do, or create wholly original content?
- How long are people willing to keep waiting?
Jump to Start of Discussion

7 September - 14 September
LHT Discussion Continued...
- Do people want to try to work with pre-existing groups?
- Discuss the results of the straw poll. (Poll will remain open for the rest of the week.)
- Potential group splintering- are there only certain conditions under which people are willing to work? (I will only join if LHT is followed. I will only join if the edited arcs are rewritten. Etc. )
Jump to Start of Discussion Strawpoll Results - Who wants to wait for LHT, who wants to start now?

14 September - 21 September
The Last Few Arcs
- The important question of whether we're going to rewrite the edited arcs that removed characters and attempt to show them as they were intended to be originally, OR if we're going to take what we got and work with it. Since the renewed interest originated in the Endangered Species Remake thread, I think this is an important distinction to make.

FUTURE PROMPTS
(Revised as of 30 August 2015, I am splitting two-week topics into smaller, but related, week-long topics.
Again, please try not to skip ahead to one of these prompts out of order and derail the current conversation.)
[spoiler]--Currently ON HOLD--
19 September
Strawpoll - Rewrite edited arcs or keep what we got? Link will be posted on above date.

21 September - 28 September
The Genesis Wave
- Incorporate Worlds Collide or not?
- Acknowledge reboot?
- Update character designs?

28 September - 5 October
Series Structure
- How do we want to handle arcs? 4-parters? 2-parters? Ongoing? Split in half to share with a second character ala StC?
- How long should the series last? Indefinitely or specific number of issues?

5 October - 12 October
The Fuuuuuuutuuuuuuure
- What storylines absolutely NEED to be wrapped up by AS:O?
- What do people want to see more of in the future? (Incorporating more game stuff, revisiting old stuff, seeing the FF back together, etc.)
- Incorporating non-Preboot characters into future stories (includes post-Reboot, other continuities.)

12 October - 26 October
Staffing, Organization, and Policies
- Create a master list of everyone who wants to be involved and what skills they have to offer.
- Begin figuring out where we're going to be moving to off of Bumbleking.
- How are we going to come to agreements and settle opposing views?
- Who's going to be in charge?

26 October +
How It's Made
- Plan a timeline for the creation process of an issue. (Ex. Script writing for x months, penciling for x months while the next script is started, etc.)
- What do we want the title to be?

Sometime After That...
- Idea sharing
- Script writing
- Art making
- Posting
- Celebrating! :D

CURRENT PROMPT
Creating Short Test Stories

1. Are you a: writer/editor/penciler/inker/colorist/letterer?

2. Did you want to: follow LHT/wait and see for LHT/not use LHT?

3. Link us to any previous work or experience. (Not required, but helpful.)


Jump to Start of Discussion

Strawpolls Will Be Posted Here

Hey all, just a quick note from me- I've handed over the leadership of the project to GentlemanX, TuxKnux, and TheShadowImperator, and now I'll just be an artist. If you need to PM anyone with a question or concern about the project, they're the ones you want to talk to!

Currently, the crew is working on creating test stories in preparation for a comic based on Lost Hedgehog Tales. What we need right now more than anything is artists! If you think you'd like to be involved, please, let us know! Below are the comics currently being produced, and what positions are needed most for each.

UPDATE FOR JANUARY 2015:
Since Bumbleking is closing down, plans for Archie Sonic: Online are being moved to a new forum, which you can find HERE.


Current Test Stories
Spoiler: show
"Your First Chili Dog" - Written/In the process of being drawn
Editor: TuxKnux
Writer: GentlemanX
Penciler: faceclams
Inker: faceclams?
Colorist: Needed!
Letterer: Needed!

"Knuckles vs. Thrash" - Written/Artist Needed!
Editor: GentlemanX
Writer: The Shadow IMperator
Penciler: Needed!
Inker: Needed!
Colorist: Needed!
Letterer: Needed!

"Black and Blue" - In the process of being written
Editor:
Writer: GentlemanX
Penciler:
Inker:
Colorist:
Letterer

Thanks!
Last edited by SimonSays on Sun Jan 31, 2016 11:03 pm, edited 13 times in total.
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Re: New Archie Sonic: Online Discussion - Plots and Planning

Postby SimonSays » Sun Aug 23, 2015 5:02 pm

Double-posting for the sake of keeping my response separate from the OP. :V

1. What plot elements were unresolved at the end of the reboot? Let's identify everything that needed to be wrapped up.
    - Silver reading Mogul's note and getting back to the future.
    - Hershey missing.
    - Naugus possessing Geoffrey's body.
    - Team Freedom facing the Tails Doll.
    - Shard's dead-ish.
    - Scourge had gone rogue and betrayed Finitevus. Both had plans of their own.
    - Julie-Su and Saffron, along with the Dark Legion and the Albionites, were tossed into another dimension.
    - Mecha Sally had been knocked out by Silver, but the Death Egg was still a threat in the Arctic.
    - Bunnie was missing in Oil Ocean Zone.
    - Antoine was still in a coma.
    - Black Arms still fighting the Xorda.

That's the obvious stuff that comes to mind, but I know I'm totally blanking on most things. I'll need the help of everyone else to remember other details from farther back.

2. I already posted my ideas in the OP, but here's a breakdown of what I intend to cover with each:

The Last Few Arcs/Rewriting Edited Arcs vs. Moving Forward
    - Focusing mainly on if we were happy with the old continuity as it was when it ended, or if most of us wish things had been done differently.
    - The important question of whether we're going to rewrite the edited arcs that removed characters and attempt to show them as they were intended to be originally, OR if we're going to take what we got and work with it. Since the renewed interest originated in the Endangered Species Remake thread, I think this is an important distinction to make.
    - EDIT ADD: To incorporate Worlds Collide or not?
    - EDIT ADD: Acknowledge reboot at all?

Short- and Long-Term Direction of the Comics/Formatting Arcs

    - Which storylines need to be wrapped up first?
    - What do people want to see more of in the future? (Incorporating more game stuff, revisiting old stuff, seeing the FF back together, etc.)
    - How do we want to handle arcs? 4-parters? 2-parters? Ongoing? Split in half to share with a second character ala StC?
    - EDIT ADD: How long should the series last? Indefinitely or specific number of issues?
    - EDIT ADD: Incorporating non-Preboot characters into future stories (includes post-Reboot, other continuities)?
    - EDIT ADD: Changing character designs?

To Use LHT or Not To Use LHT?
    - Exactly what it says on the tin- this is all about whether we want to wait for Lost Hedgehog Tales in order to incorporate those ideas into what we do, or create wholly original content?
    - EDIT ADD: Do we want to try to work with pre-existing groups?
    - EDIT ADD: What do we want the title to be?

Staffing, Organization, and Policies
    - Take stock of who wants to be involved and what skills they have to offer.
    - Begin figuring out where we're going to be moving to off of Bumbleking.
    - Decide now how we're going to come to agreements and settle opposing views.
    - Plan a timeline for the creation process of an issue. (Ex. Script writing for x months, penciling for x months while the next script is started, etc.)

I don't think we really need to know much more than that to begin working on it. After these prompts run out, we should have enough to start people putting out their ideas for future issues, but we'll set up a separate thread for that.
Last edited by SimonSays on Sun Aug 30, 2015 2:42 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: New Archie Sonic: Online Discussion - Plots and Planning

Postby The Shadow Sage » Sun Aug 23, 2015 6:53 pm

I was an editor for the Endangered Species Remake, and if we could get this going I would be glad to continue to help as an editor for this project too if you'd have me help out.

Some other plot points that I think could be added are:

- The realization that there are other Khan's in the world.
- Snively's fate.
- The war between the Zone Cops and Dr. Eggman Nega.
- The state of Naugus/Geoffrey's mind due to the three awakened Ixis wizards.
- The state of the Council with the addition of Isabella Mongoose.
- Nicole's return to the New Mobotropolis mainframe and public opinion on the matter.

I know some of them might not be big concerns, but they're still part of the discussion.
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Re: New Archie Sonic: Online Discussion - Plots and Planning

Postby Striker » Sun Aug 23, 2015 8:30 pm

SimonSays wrote:1. What plot elements were unresolved at the end of the reboot? Let's identify everything that needed to be wrapped up.
    - Silver reading Mogul's note and getting back to the future.
    - Hershey missing.
    - Naugus possessing Geoffrey's body.
    - Team Freedom facing the Tails Doll.
    - Shard's dead-ish.
    - Scourge had gone rogue and betrayed Finitevus. Both had plans of their own.
    - Julie-Su and Saffron, along with the Dark Legion and the Albionites, were tossed into another dimension.
    - Mecha Sally had been knocked out by Silver, but the Death Egg was still a threat in the Arctic.
    - Bunnie was missing in Oil Ocean Zone.
    - Antoine was still in a coma.
    - Black Arms still fighting the Xorda.

That's the obvious stuff that comes to mind, but I know I'm totally blanking on most things. I'll need the help of everyone else to remember other details from farther back.


The Shadow Sage wrote:Some other plot points that I think could be added are:

- The realization that there are other Khan's in the world.
- Snively's fate.
- The war between the Zone Cops and Dr. Eggman Nega.
- The state of Naugus/Geoffrey's mind due to the three awakened Ixis wizards.
- The state of the Council with the addition of Isabella Mongoose.
- Nicole's return to the New Mobotropolis mainframe and public opinion on the matter.


I think the two of you have summed up any unresolved plots. There may be somethings that we are missing but I think that this is the gist of it. Im going to do some re-reading to get myself reacquainted with the material and see if I can bring up any other plots that we all may have forgotten about.
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Re: New Archie Sonic: Online Discussion - Plots and Planning

Postby Mobotropolis » Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:30 pm

Some bits from me for starters. I'll have to dig deeper to get everything.

GUN was gathering Chaos Emeralds for some kind of project.

Whatever it was we probably won't see because Nagus was going to take their emeralds.

Rob had a brother. Amy was getting some Mercian Backstory sooner rather than later.

This might be just me and conjecture, but Sonic seemed to be showing signs of depression after defeating Eggman and in the post-200 world. This seemed to come to a head after Sally was roboticized and the Freedom Fighters started to go down. Further evidence being contemplating Scourge's words before forming Team Fighters and uncharacteristically snapping at Jet and Silver for their shenanigans. I sort-of remember Eggman saying that he wanted to break Sonic with his actions, so this may have been leading to something.

Sally showed some signs of free thought in the Wolf Pack / Felidade story. Memory is fuzzy, but she made a suggestion that was Sally-like that was followed through on. How aware was she of what was happening?

Eggman made Snively get him a Chaos Emerald for some purpose. Ultimately, he lost that Emerald when Worlds Collide happened but what was the Emerald actually going to be used for?

Since it seems to be in the " Not Happening " Category now ... Sonic Underground?

Other than that I skimmed the Lost Hedgehog Tales Topic:

What happened to The Iron King?

Vector's backstory/Downunda Roots.

Fixing the Plot Hole about how Mina got her powers.

Miles had Magic -- and some plans for the Surpression Squad.

Ian had plans for Merlin Prower/Neo Walkers that had to be shelved.

It may have just been the mandate talking, but it seemed like Tails and Rosemary's relationship was becoming strained because of her work on the Council. Specifically, he was horrified that she would side with Nagus and have Nicole banished.

Edmund (Silver's Future) was tagged the " Failed Guardian ". Was he involved in the disaster that lead to Silver's bad future?

Why was Sonic able to break through Finitevus' Hex? Did it have anything to do with that Embidoment of Chaos-thing that was brought up in the 220s? Was that just a fancy way of saying that Sonic had Plot Armor? What even was that?

Notes from Ian:
- "Endangered Species" - both version, originally had a definitively HAPPY ending
- Finitevus was going to be a HUGE player in the Road to #275


Original Version Outline

I read every page of the Lost Hedgehog Tales Thread to try and jog my memory, but only listed things that were actually mentioned in the book. I tried to steer away from Silver's Future/XYL stuff since a lot of unresolved stuff got mentioned and we seem to be focusing on the present.
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Re: New Archie Sonic: Online Discussion - Plots and Planning

Postby TheFatPanda » Mon Aug 24, 2015 4:20 am

I personally think it goes without saying that you shouldn't retcon the version of Endangered Species we got: just roll with it, make a storyline out of Knuckles finding the echidnas, maybe incorporate some elements from the original ES in that potential arc.
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Re: New Archie Sonic: Online Discussion - Plots and Planning

Postby Mobotropolis » Mon Aug 24, 2015 6:09 am

That's something we'll decide on later, I think.

If we are adapting Lost Hedgehog Tales we should adapt most if not all of it. Especially if whatever was originally planned for Endangered Species factored into the Road to 300 like it likely would have.

Now that you mention it that makes me wonder if Finitevus being missing when Thrash went to his place had been in the original. At the time I thought Finitevus might have went to Moebius because he really wanted something there. In hindsight that also could have been a " Better Safe Than Sorry " Pendering. Knuckles being re-established as the only echidna post-reboot makes me think that the order to get rid of them all was made abruptly and before everything we know to be true now fell into place.

Dimitri was just overlooked like Briar Buck was.
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Re: New Archie Sonic: Online Discussion - Plots and Planning

Postby Ryannumber1gamer » Mon Aug 24, 2015 6:35 am

I'm not really sure if Snively's fate would count as one of the storylines though, because we know from Worlds Collide that he was still Eggman's Prisoner. My guess for what would've happened in the original is Regina sooner or later realized her Snively was captured, and the one with her was a fake created by Eggman, causing her to be filled with rage and go after the real Snively.
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Re: New Archie Sonic: Online Discussion - Plots and Planning

Postby MetalSkulkBane » Mon Aug 24, 2015 6:57 am

I think that all major plot points were already pointed out, but if someone really wants to scratch the bottom
- Leaving Matilda with DEL isn't exactly the real closure
- Technically Blaze didn't collected all Sol Emeralds yet (but I'm in favor of using "Pirate Plunder" as cannon, unless LHT say otherwise)
- If you're reeeally fastidious then there are few Pre-Flynn plot points: who putted Sonic in comma in #51, This stupid villain from Image crossover and Locke's dreams about Knuckles fighting giant robots.

Topics to discuss? I think Simon wrote all we need. Whenever we adapt Lost Hedgehog Tales or not changes everything. First we must decide who's involved and who's just a by stander, who's in charge, how writers should agree with each other and what we do if one writer stops answering his mail for some reason. I once tried to write a group fic with only 4 other people and it was a mess already. Two quited before chapter 3, when third guy just disappeared we had to cancel whole thing.

One last thing I think we must discuss: Do we try to make it ongoing series like STC Online or do we just want a proper ending for old universe? I know that Fleetway guys are doing great job, but I seen too many projects to just die in half way. Maybe we should just write around 30 issues, defeat Eggman once and for all and leave on happy ending?
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Re: New Archie Sonic: Online Discussion - Plots and Planning

Postby QuantamEdge » Mon Aug 24, 2015 11:12 am

TheFatPanda wrote:I personally think it goes without saying that you shouldn't retcon the version of Endangered Species we got: just roll with it, make a storyline out of Knuckles finding the echidnas, maybe incorporate some elements from the original ES in that potential arc.

I dunno, I'd kind of like to see the original version adapted somehow. It doesn't even have to be canon to this whole operation, just a way of finally showing what was supposed to happen. Although that would make things a little confusing which is why I'd prefer to start the whole thing off with adapting the original ES (maybe even incorporate Shadow Emperor's version with the LHT one even).
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Re: New Archie Sonic: Online Discussion - Plots and Planning

Postby SimonSays » Mon Aug 24, 2015 11:50 am

Yeah, all the stuff about whether we're going to do a rewrite or follow LHT is stuff we're going to talk about later on. Both are really big matters that need to be given the spotlight.

MetalSkulkBane wrote:One last thing I think we must discuss: Do we try to make it ongoing series like STC Online or do we just want a proper ending for old universe? I know that Fleetway guys are doing great job, but I seen too many projects to just die in half way. Maybe we should just write around 30 issues, defeat Eggman once and for all and leave on happy ending?

This is a good idea for a prompt! I think it would fit easily with the week where we discuss the arc formatting, but it would be good to consider the idea of not going on indefinitely. Setting an end goal of X number of issues just to wrap up the current stories. Maybe have a goal of getting to 275, which would be what, 28 issues from where it left off? Still a lot of work to do! I'll add 'series length' as a prompt.

I think I'm going to go ahead and shorten this first prompt to just a week. We've already covered a lot of stuff and I think people are itching to move onto the other questions. So I'll post that next Monday instead of the 7th.

As for more dangling stuff, we never really found out what Dulcy was up to. She just kind of disappeared.
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Re: New Archie Sonic: Online Discussion - Plots and Planning

Postby Spectre the Hechidnat » Mon Aug 24, 2015 4:56 pm

Mobotropolis wrote:Some bits from me for starters. I'll have to dig deeper to get everything.

GUN was gathering Chaos Emeralds for some kind of project.

Whatever it was we probably won't see because Nagus was going to take their emeralds.

Rob had a brother. Amy was getting some Mercian Backstory sooner rather than later.

This might be just me and conjecture, but Sonic seemed to be showing signs of depression after defeating Eggman and in the post-200 world. This seemed to come to a head after Sally was roboticized and the Freedom Fighters started to go down. Further evidence being contemplating Scourge's words before forming Team Fighters and uncharacteristically snapping at Jet and Silver for their shenanigans. I sort-of remember Eggman saying that he wanted to break Sonic with his actions, so this may have been leading to something.

Sally showed some signs of free thought in the Wolf Pack / Felidade story. Memory is fuzzy, but she made a suggestion that was Sally-like that was followed through on. How aware was she of what was happening?

Eggman made Snively get him a Chaos Emerald for some purpose. Ultimately, he lost that Emerald when Worlds Collide happened but what was the Emerald actually going to be used for?

Since it seems to be in the " Not Happening " Category now ... Sonic Underground?

Other than that I skimmed the Lost Hedgehog Tales Topic:

What happened to The Iron King?

Vector's backstory/Downunda Roots.

Fixing the Plot Hole about how Mina got her powers.

Miles had Magic -- and some plans for the Surpression Squad.

Ian had plans for Merlin Prower/Neo Walkers that had to be shelved.

It may have just been the mandate talking, but it seemed like Tails and Rosemary's relationship was becoming strained because of her work on the Council. Specifically, he was horrified that she would side with Nagus and have Nicole banished.

Edmund (Silver's Future) was tagged the " Failed Guardian ". Was he involved in the disaster that lead to Silver's bad future?

Why was Sonic able to break through Finitevus' Hex? Did it have anything to do with that Embidoment of Chaos-thing that was brought up in the 220s? Was that just a fancy way of saying that Sonic had Plot Armor? What even was that?

Notes from Ian:
- "Endangered Species" - both version, originally had a definitively HAPPY ending
- Finitevus was going to be a HUGE player in the Road to #275


Original Version Outline

I read every page of the Lost Hedgehog Tales Thread to try and jog my memory, but only listed things that were actually mentioned in the book. I tried to steer away from Silver's Future/XYL stuff since a lot of unresolved stuff got mentioned and we seem to be focusing on the present.


I believe Ian had made mention of planning to have Sally struggle with her experience as a Robian after she was returned to normal. I think the blue Chaos Emerald was intended for use in Genesis and making it permanent, but then it got lost. On that subject, would you want to keep Worlds Collide canon or ditch it? I expressed interest in similar projects previously but it never got off the ground. Also, I believe Ian explained in the Encyclopedia that Mogul projected an astral form from the Master Emerald and gave Mina her powers because he sensed she would eventually become important to Sonic.

A lot of these ideas sound pretty good-I certainly wouldn't mind the discussion.
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Re: New Archie Sonic: Online Discussion - Plots and Planning

Postby Spin » Tue Aug 25, 2015 12:03 am

I prefer LHT is followed if efforts are made to try and align to the old continuity as faithfully as possible.

Otherwise after Worlds Collide would be the best possible placement for optional takes on storylines as any fan inconsistency could be chalked up to a side effect from a second Genesis Wave/performing a Super Genesis Wave. It could also offer a fair bit of more freedom depending on the direction.
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Re: New Archie Sonic: Online Discussion - Plots and Planning

Postby The Shadow Sage » Tue Aug 25, 2015 7:09 am

Ryannumber1gamer wrote:I'm not really sure if Snively's fate would count as one of the storylines though, because we know from Worlds Collide that he was still Eggman's Prisoner. My guess for what would've happened in the original is Regina sooner or later realized her Snively was captured, and the one with her was a fake created by Eggman, causing her to be filled with rage and go after the real Snively.

It's still a plot point. Whether Ian was going to follow up on it at some point or not. It's like with Dimitri. After Lien-Da took his position as the Grandmaster, Ian didn't have to follow up on finding him at all. So I doubt there wasn't going to be a return of Snively at some point.

Which reminds me:

- The fate of the Brotherhood and Moritori Rex in the Twilight Cage.
- Dimitri's assimilation into Haven II and helping Knuckles.

Guess those two could sorta go together, but still plot points nonetheless. But then there's also:

- Sleuth Dawg. Know he retired, but there could still be possibilities with him. Could even bring back Kicks a Lot too.
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Re: New Archie Sonic: Online Discussion - Plots and Planning

Postby MetalSkulkBane » Tue Aug 25, 2015 1:03 pm

The Shadow Sage wrote:- Sleuth Dawg. Know he retired, but there could still be possibilities with him. Could even bring back Kicks a Lot too.


Okay people, let's slow down a little. Next "plotpoint" we'll pull out will be Betty Butterfly, because Flynn just might had a great plans for her.
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